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RFC Meeting: Architecture open office (2016-04-06, #wikimedia-office)
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Hosted by daniel on Apr 6 2016, 9:00 PM - 10:00 PM.

Description

  • Location: #wikimedia-office IRC channel
  • Meeting type: TBD
  • Time: 2016-04-06, Wednesday 21:00 UTC (2pm PDT)
  • Agenda:

See the Architecture meetings page for more general information about this meeting (also: Phab query: list of upcoming RFC meetings, Phab query: list of all RFC meetings).

Recurring Event

Event Series
This event is an instance of E66: ArchCom RFC Meeting Wxx: <topic TBD> (<see "Starts" field>, #wikimedia-office), and repeats every week.

Event Timeline

How about an open TechCom/Architecture discussion this week, similar to last week's meeting (2016-03-30 meeting: E152)?

One meta thing we could do: establish the plan for next week (E159) at this week's meeting.

RobLa-WMF renamed this event from RFC Meeting: <topic TBD> (<see "Starts" field>, #wikimedia-office) to RFC Meeting: Architecture open office (2016-04-06, #wikimedia-office).Apr 5 2016, 11:16 PM
RobLa-WMF updated the event description. (Show Details)
RobLa-WMF mentioned this in Unknown Object (Event).Apr 5 2016, 11:21 PM

Thanks for starting #WorldUnivandSch in IRC last week from this ArchCom meeting last week ... very much!

[14:11] <Scott_WUaS_> Here's WUaS MediaWiki with about 7 pages only: And WUaS here is now in German (partly thanks to Google Translate - https://translate.google.com - a kind of machine translation) ~ http://worlduniversityandschool.org/WUaS_En_Wiki ... > ... http://worlduniversityandschool.org/WUaS_De_Wiki. And similarly Languages at WUaS MediaWiki is now too in German (again partly thanks to Google Translate) ~

[14:11] <Scott_WUaS_> http://worlduniversityandschool.org/WUaS_En_Wiki/index.php?title=Languages ... > ... http://worlduniversityandschool.org/WUaS_De_Wiki/index.php?title=Sprachen .

[14:11] <Scott_WUaS_> And similarly Nation States at WUaS MediaWiki is now too in German (partly thanks to Google Translate) ~ http://worlduniversityandschool.org/WUaS_En_Wiki/index.php?title=Nation_States ... > ... http://worlduniversityandschool.org/WUaS_De_Wiki/index.php?title=Nationalstaaten .

[14:11] <Scott_WUaS_> also in this recent blog post - http://scott-macleod.blogspot.com/2016/04/himalayas-spanish-wuas-and-stanford.html

([14:03] <Scott_WUaS_> @RobLa! thought I would be at an all-day Stanford Law China Guiding Cases Project, but it turns out to begin a little after 5 ... have to leave soon after 3 PT to get to Stanford)

from new #WorldUnivandSch IRC channel

I didn't do a good job of using Meetbot, but we did a couple of things:

  1. Announced that T129435: RFC: drop support for running without mbstring is ArchCom-approved. @bd808 +2'ed the corresponding commit during the office hour
  2. planned out E159: RFC Meeting: Hygienic transclusions and balanced templates (2016-04-13, #wikimedia-office). The agenda is to have a problem definition discussion around these two RFCs:

Here's the full log for this meeting:

121:04:34 <robla> #startmeeting https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/E158
221:04:35 <wm-labs-meetbot> Meeting started Wed Apr 6 21:04:34 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is robla. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
321:04:35 <wm-labs-meetbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
421:04:35 <wm-labs-meetbot> The meeting name has been set to 'https___phabricator_wikimedia_org_e158'
521:04:47 <robla> #topic Channel is logged and publicly posted (DO NOT REMOVE THIS NOTE) |Logs: http://bots.wmflabs.org/~wm-bot/logs/%23wikimedia-office/
621:04:59 <robla> hi folks!
721:05:21 <robla> MaxSem: did you see anything?
821:05:30 <MaxSem> see where? :P
921:05:45 <robla> :-)
1021:06:14 <robla> anyway, this is just a general ArchCom office hour....no major updates
1121:06:37 <robla> those watching closely on Phab might have seen some activity from ArchCom in the past hour
1221:07:19 <robla> the activity feed here: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/profile/52/
1321:07:53 <Scott_WUaS> (@robla! thought I would be at an all-day Stanford Law China Guiding Cases Project, but it turns out to begin a little after 5 ... have to leave soon after 3 to get to Stanford ... Thanks for starting #WorldUnivandSch in IRC last week ... very much)
1421:08:06 <bd808> I case anyone missed it, the first patch for the dependency injection/service locator work was merged during the hackathon. :)
1521:08:34 <robla> bd808: I saw that....cool!
1621:08:40 <robla> have a link handy?
1721:09:06 <bd808> https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/264403/
1821:09:35 <robla> ah, right, which also links to https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T124792
1921:10:11 <bd808> We had a well attended discussion on the general topic as well -- https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/wmhack2016_DI
2021:10:35 * robla follows the link to skim the notes
2121:13:18 <robla> bd808: what is the general consensus on the RFC from what you saw at the Hackathon? is it something that's effectively a done deal and that ArchCom should just follow through on, or is there advice from ArchCom that's still desired?
2221:13:57 <bd808> I think it was all down to implementation details at this point. Daniel needs code review and +2s
2321:15:02 <robla> ok, good to know
2421:15:13 <bd808> There are almost certainly going to be some things that come up as usage expands. We may need some do & don't guildelines once we know what to do or not do.
2521:16:22 <robla> the bulk of the prose for T124792 should probably move to mw.org</processwonk>
2621:16:22 <stashbot> T124792: RFC: Service Locator for MediaWiki core - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T124792
2721:18:21 <bd808> yeah. there is a lot of stuff in docs/injection.txt that should end up on wiki
2821:18:23 <robla> anyway, one thing we talked about at the ArchCom planning meeting was the stuff everyone is shepherding, and also "what do we plan for next week's IRC meeting?"
2921:18:35 <TimStarling> we've just been discussing that in #mediawiki-parsoid
3021:18:57 <TimStarling> gwicke and cscott agree that it could be T130567 followed by T114445
3121:18:58 <stashbot> T114445: [RFC] Balanced templates - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T114445
3221:18:58 <stashbot> T130567: WIP RFC: Hygienic transclusions for WYSIWYG, incremental parsing & composition: Options and trade-offs - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T130567
3321:19:20 <TimStarling> that is, the general RFC first and then the specific prototype implementation
3421:19:38 <robla> TimStarling: wonderful!
3521:20:13 <robla> I'll skim the backlog on #mediawiki-parsoid in just a sec, but generally that sounds like a good plan
3621:20:37 <robla> anyone think of anything more important for us to discuss at the IRC meeting next week?
3721:20:47 <MaxSem> um...
3821:21:00 <robla> oh, right....also....mbstring
3921:21:10 <robla> *that* I think we can clear up this week
4021:22:13 <robla> so, Timo, Tim, and Gabriel were there, and they agreed that the mbstring requirement should be approved
4121:23:03 <robla> T129435 that is
4221:23:04 <stashbot> T129435: RFC: drop support for running without mbstring - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T129435
4321:23:32 <robla> MaxSem: so...you're probably just waiting for someone to +2 the patch, right?
4421:23:41 <Scott_WUaS> (@robla: just posted this in #WorldUnivandSch [14:21] <Scott_WUaS_> @robla Is there a possibility please that we could start a RFC re the WUaS questions now in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/E158, and possibly for next week, or how would this work best?)
4521:24:59 <MaxSem> robla, my patch is ready for merge from my perspective. if that's all that needs to be done, let's merge it
4621:27:07 <robla> MaxSem: sounds reasonable. any other higher priorities for next week's discussion other than the balanced template disucssion?
4721:28:29 <robla> gwicke: you believe that T130567 should be the umbrella for "balanced template" disucssions?
4821:28:30 <stashbot> T130567: WIP RFC: Hygienic transclusions for WYSIWYG, incremental parsing & composition: Options and trade-offs - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T130567
4921:29:48 <gwicke> robla: it's still a bit rough as written, but I think we can extend it a bit to provide the overview that we need for this topic
5021:30:01 <gwicke> subbu has written a good summary as well
5121:30:41 <robla> gwicke: which summary is the summary you prefer?
5221:30:50 <gwicke> I don't care that much about the RFC number, it's more about starting with a high-level problem description, describing the challenges and building some agreement on requirements
5321:31:34 <gwicke> robla: I think right now T130567 is closest
5421:31:35 <stashbot> T130567: WIP RFC: Hygienic transclusions for WYSIWYG, incremental parsing & composition: Options and trade-offs - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T130567
5521:31:47 <subbu> oh sorry .. discussion is happening here ... i lost track and was talking in #mediawiki-parsoid.
5621:31:59 <gwicke> there is also https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T57524, which is very similar but older
5721:32:36 <robla> subbu: yeah, we're having Phab event E158 now
5821:32:40 <gwicke> subbu: is there another text we should consider as an introduction to the general problem?
5921:32:57 <subbu> i can provide one by next meeting .. i can add it to whatever rfc already exists.
6021:33:17 <gwicke> that would be awesome
6121:33:32 <robla> subbu: cool. next meeting is https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/E159
6221:33:37 <subbu> k
6321:34:09 <gwicke> subbu: if you want, T130567 is yours
6421:34:10 <stashbot> T130567: WIP RFC: Hygienic transclusions for WYSIWYG, incremental parsing & composition: Options and trade-offs - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T130567
6521:34:25 <subbu> let me come up with some text first.
6621:34:56 <robla> subbu: awww...that's no fun! "ready, fire, aim" is the best order! ;-)
6721:36:48 <MaxSem> bd808, I'll add ext-mbstring to composer.json but anything else should be made in a separate commit - objections?
6821:37:11 <bd808> works for me
6921:37:41 <robla> I've started putting ArchCom planning meetings in Phab as well, btw. The one we just had was https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/E157 . Next one is https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/E156/2
7021:37:56 <bd808> MaxSem: looks like we only have ext-iconv in there right now
7121:38:01 <MaxSem> aha
7221:38:24 <bd808> ext-mbstring is in "suggest"
7321:39:34 <MaxSem> bd808, amended
7421:41:04 <bd808> MaxSem: +2'd
7521:41:13 <MaxSem> weeeeeeeeeeeee
7621:41:56 <robla> bd808: great, thanks!
7721:42:48 <robla> so, I dropped a comment in E159 about next week's tentative agenda: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/E159#1649
7821:44:57 <robla> I think we can wrap up a little early, unless anyone has anything to add
7921:45:26 <robla> or any questions about ArchCom/Architecture stuff generally
8021:45:42 <quiddity> robla, can you summarize next week's topics in 5-10 words, for Tech/News ?
8121:46:14 * robla gives it a shot
8221:47:23 <gwicke> not an easy task, in 5-10 words ;)
8321:49:02 <quiddity> "Hygienic transclusions and balanced templates" ?
8421:49:03 <Scott_WUaS> :)
8521:49:09 <robla> Next weeks conversation: T130567 (regarding how to better transclude templates for Parsoid) and T114445 (an aspect of the implementation)
8621:49:09 <stashbot> T114445: [RFC] Balanced templates - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T114445
8721:49:09 <stashbot> T130567: WIP RFC: Hygienic transclusions for WYSIWYG, incremental parsing & composition: Options and trade-offs - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T130567
8821:49:19 <robla> gwicke: how's that?
8921:49:45 <gwicke> quiddity: that's pretty good
9021:50:01 <quiddity> heh, I'll mix and match. thanks :)
9121:50:16 <robla> :-)
9221:50:27 <gwicke> it'll be difficult to provide more background in a few words, and I think this evokes the right intuitions
9321:51:00 <robla> gwicke: TimStarling which meeting type do we anticipate having next week? https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Good_meetings
9421:51:03 <gwicke> more racy: "The future of templates"
9521:51:40 <gwicke> or transclusions, rather
9621:51:46 <robla> I'm assuming this will be a "Problem definition" discussion still, but let me know if you're further in the process
9721:52:07 <gwicke> yeah, I think it'll be heavy on problem definition
9821:52:10 <TimStarling> I think gwicke's part is field narrowing?
9921:52:39 <TimStarling> maybe that is overly optimistic :)
10021:52:53 <TimStarling> let's call it problem definition, I almost said that
10121:52:59 <robla> lol
10221:53:13 <robla> sounds good
10321:53:56 <robla> ok....anything else before we wrap up?
10421:54:41 * robla will enter #endmeeting in 60 seconds
10521:55:45 <robla> 5 seconds...
10621:55:51 <robla> #endmeeting

daniel renamed this event from RFC Meeting: Architecture open office (2016-04-06, #wikimedia-office) to ArchCom RFC Meeting Wxx: <topic TBD> (<see "Starts" field>, #wikimedia-office).Nov 21 2016, 6:11 PM
daniel changed the host of this event from RobLa-WMF to daniel.
daniel invited: ; uninvited: .
daniel updated the event description. (Show Details)
daniel updated the event description. (Show Details)Dec 9 2016, 7:44 AM
daniel renamed this event from ArchCom RFC Meeting Wxx: <topic TBD> (<see "Starts" field>, #wikimedia-office) to RFC Meeting: Architecture open office (2016-04-06, #wikimedia-office).