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Authored by Dzahn on Nov 26 2014, 8:05 PM.
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F16472: quips
Nov 26 2014, 8:23 PM
F16468: quips
Nov 26 2014, 8:05 PM
I spent a minute looking at my own code by accident. I was thinking "What the hell is this guy doing?"
Play "stomp the developers" live on irc:// !
The answer is 42.
To bug or not to bug, that is the question.
[jwales] What good is having a war mongering President if we can't invade Estonia to kill spammers? I AM JOKING DO NOT QUOTE ME ON THAT. :-)
[kingturtle2] is lieutenant pronounced al-OOOOOOO-MIN-eee-um?
[SethIlys] Hmm... I'm getting 500 errors. [FennecFoxen] SethIlys- that's a lot of errors.
[Raul654] how the hell did [[List of people on stamps of Gabon]] get on my watchlist?
[Raul654] come on, isn't anyone here an admin on meta? [BillyH] I think Raul654 is.
[TimStarling] We already have kid editors. First they learn about how to edit a page, then they learn about VfD.
Dear diary: No wikipedia today. Had to go outside and see real people again. [S AlexS]
I don't know what to do and where to go. Outer world seems uneditable. (ilya)
[Kate-] (Jimbo)'s in hospital with total amnesia. [brion] "I started a *what* on the internet??"
[danny] I fear we have an international incident brewing between micronations on our recent changes should be regarded as a desperate measure, like removing a frostbitten limb.
Yesterday is a past, tomorrow is a future, today is a gift that's why it's called 'present'.
Text processing has made it possible to right-justify any idea, even one which cannot be justified on any other grounds. -J. Finnegan
[TimShell] Is there an IRC client that has a command that will allow me to physically hurt another user, because I would find that useful
Our new slogan... Wikipedia: Just a Little Bit More Than You Wanted To Know
[DavidGerard] the gates over hell, with "ABANDON HOPE ALL YE WHO ENTER HERE" over them... if you can find a GFDL image
[Raul654], since we're boned both ways, we might as well make a policy
[dannyisme] SJ, I have removed the misplaced comma you inserted to irk me. do not think that your attempt at vandalism has not gone unnoticed
[TimStarling] what, so you tested two servers, found that there was a good one and a bad one, and sent us the bad one?
[SethIlys]: I was always under the impression that we *wanted* copyleft. [JamesDay]: Seth, "we" is an ambiguous concept:)
If there is nothing wrong, then something is seriously wrong.
what kind of crazed micronation would this be without our pseudolegal formalisms?
please put the text "[flame]" into the subject line so the rest of us can filter them out and get on to productive things? ;)
I've only edited in languages I don't speak today so I don't know what's going on :)
If Barbie is so popular, why do you need to buy her friends?
You cannot fix a machine by just power-cycling it with no understanding of what is going wrong.
Arguing with an engineer is like mudwrestling a pig: after an hour or so you're covered with mud... then, suddenly, you notice the pig's really enjoying itself.
Deliberate complexity is the mark of an amateur. Elegant simplicity is the mark of a master.
The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'.
MediaZilla: Your one refuge from the Kids WB Yu-Gi-Oh Marathon
If something can fail, it will do so unexpectedly. If something cannot fail, it will do so disastrously.
* brion kicks bacon in the eggs
Lord, what fools these mortals be!
[E]veryone takes one look at replaceInternalLinks and goes to watch TV --TimStarling
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
Mark_Ryan has kicked Mark_Ryan from #wikipedia (reckless disregard for policy)
Silverman's Law: If Murphy's Law can go wrong, it will.
f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgrmmng.
In Soviet Russia, Wikipedia edits everyone.
Xirzon: are the servers up for slashdotting ? brion: we get more traffic than /. usually we don't even notice the bump on the traffic graphs
It was a bad idea. The users made me do it. -- Tim Starling in wikitech-l
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
"Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature." - Rich Kulawiec
This space intentionally left blank.
And so, we don't need a business model, we're just doing it. [Jimmy Wales, early 21st century]
[jwales] damn wikipedia spam. those people are taking over the internet
Black holes suck.
Sometimes you just have to turn off the computer.
22,000,000 google hits for "wikipedia," polluting the Internet since January 15, 2001
In Soviet Russia, bugs fix you
If the world were perfect, you wouldn't be seeing this.
It matters not what the clocks say or the attitudes and labors of men. Morning is when I am awake and there is a dawn in me. (Henry David Thoreau)
The bible doesn't give us all the details but it implies pancakes.
To err is human. To really mess things up you need a computer
Move along, nothing to see here! (Officer Barbrady)
He's from one of the Lost Tribes of Israel which should have remained lost ---Woody Allen
* brion burns down an end user or two
I know how the MediaWiki namespace works, I invented it -- TimStarling
The Developers make no warranty, express or implied, as to the usability of this product, nor to the occupational hazard of poking shed loads of bug reports at us and expecting us to keep smiling.
[brion]: that sounds too much like... well i won't say it
...but there are also unknown unknowns - the ones we don't know we don't know - Donald Rumsfeld
"This is a famous monkey. To see an automatically generated list of other famous monkeys click here."
Text processing has made it possible to right-justify any idea, even one which cannot be justified on any other grounds. -J. Finnegan
It's better to burn out than to fade away - Neil Young
People who think they know everything really annoy those of us that do.
Hate the bug and love the developer.
"There were grammatical errors even in his silence." -- Stanisław Jerzy Lec
[Brion Vibber] A captcha of course is that annoying little thing that makes you type in a word or code to continue, to prove that you're probably not an abusive bot. (Or a blind person. Whoops!)
When all else fails, reach for the hammer.
When you start accusing everyone of being in on a conspiracy, you shouldn't be surprised if they decide to confirm your paranoia by banding together against you. (en:khaosworks)
When I was a child I used to pray everynight for a bike. One day I realized that that is not how God works, so I stole one and prayed for god to forgive me.
(brion) blocking all packets from 10/8 doesn't work too well when you're on a 10/8 network
[brion] ...we can pretty much assume satan's involved; this is Wikipedia, after all
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.
If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the PC, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside.
"Install Linux, problem solved," is not advice.
[robchurch] so exercise is like installing Windows ME [brion] yes
[TimStarling] globals are magical structures, like little winged monkeys that fly your data from wherever it is generated to wherever it is needed
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please.
brion: "i hate you, nfs"
Unlike others your brain is a masterpiece. In the left half, nothing is right and in the right half, nothing is left.
twincest: please provide a vaguer error message
"If it ain't broke, hit it hard enough and it soon will be!"
Don't fix it because you should, fix it because you might be the only one who can.
LeonWP: I already see how you'll gzip the topic one day because it's full of uninteresting stuff nobody reads
No matter what you do, someone out there, somewhere, will hate it - Titoxd's First Law
"I don't really get analysts on these things, I just do what I think sounds cool" - Jimmy Wales
(Brinstar) If it wasn't for C, we'd be using BASI, PASAL and OBOL.
(Toba) how can you be decidedly and forcefully indifferent? (est) I DON'T CARE
<TimStarling> temporary solutions have a terrible habit of becoming permanent, around here
<brion-office> well breaking wikipedia gets real fucking old :)
Wikinews: Just because we wrote it in our pyjamas doesn't mean you shouldn't take us seriously.
I flipped a three-sided coin, it came up "no consensus". --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]]
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof was to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. —Ford Prefect in "Mostly Harmless" by Douglas Adams
Never trust a programmer with a screwdriver.
/* Sure this won't happen */ die();
IMO you should go with Python or something if you wanted to rewrite MW. (Of course, the downside there is that then all the Perl-lovers will hate MediaWiki *and* its developers eternally, whereas now everyone can loathe the language it's written in in total harmony, but there's always a cost.) -- Simetrical
Contrary to popular belief, Unix is user friendly. It just happens to be very selective about who its friends are.
<Simetrical>\ Why do IRC clients always pick the wrong name to autocomplete to? <domas>\ siebrand: they always pick right for me!
(Tim Starling) Also it probably helps robustness when you don't add 7 stack levels per pair of double braces.
It's not a bug - it's an undocumented feature.
Computer programming is the only profession in which you have a valid excuse to do nothing: "My code is compiling"
<Titoxd> all users are malicious, stupid, or outright dangerous
18:11 < Simetrical> "Happy birthday! Soon this bug will be able to buy alcohol."
<TimStarling> we use rackmount servers <TimStarling> they're harder to squeeze the cats into
<brion> give me a time machine and a clue-by-four and i can fix this problem for you
<Simetrical> Remember, your commit message isn't too long until it causes people's machines to go into swap when they read the commit mailing.
<p858snake> basically wikipedia runs on the "when brion or tim gets drunk and plays with svn" build
<Splarka> that makes baby JS cry
<brion> if they say "do this" i'll be like "make me" and they'll be like "ok i will" and i'll be like "bring it!"
<TimStarling> teaching is fun, it's like making clones of yourself who will do your work for you
< werdna> I can has use case? < Simetrical> werdna, {{subst:#ifexpr: {{subst:#editcount:{{{1}}} }} > 1000|'''Support'''|'''Oppose'''}} ~~~~
<werdnum> Duesentrieb: WORKSFORME <Duesentrieb> GOODFORYOU
FunPika: do squids like candy... RobH: The squids run on information and the souls of kittens, they crave not your candy.
<brion> oh wait... i have to *apply* the patch
<Splarka> The world will not end with a bang, but with a return false;
Duesentrieb: London subway stations mostly sound like obscure Scandinavian death metal bands
If it ain't broke, it needs more features.
<Splarka> wow demon, you're looking so <big> and <strong> lately, wha'<sup>?
<pc> can someone teach me how to backup a wiki for upgrade without scripts >_> <MrZ-man> pc: you mean like writing down the content of all of the articles on paper?
<Splarka> "you caused an accidental launch of a thermonuclear device with your buggy code, you precipitated World War III! 8 billion people are dead! what do you have to say for yourself?" "PHP sucks" "Oh, well, there is that"
<RoanKattouw> avar: You managed to commit a regression that went unnoticed for 4,5 years <avar> I blame Nikerabbit
Facts don't cease to be facts; but news ceases to be news.
[21:05:18] <thedj> Chuck Norris once dared domas to a hacking contest; Chuck Norris will never use a computer again
If you have more than 1000 objects loaded on a single request, you are doing something wrong as far as I am concerned. -- Rasmus Lerdorf
Please include your latitude, longitude, and elevation in your bug report, so we know where to target the ICBM.
I don't know nearly enough about animal reproduction to continue participating in this conversation -- TrevorParscal
<dmarsh>: Hey all, Just wondering if anyone has done mediawiki in a high availability cluster? Are there any good examples out there? I've looked and struggled to find anything. <p858snake_>: dmarsh: does wikipedia count?
To deprecate something means say nasty things about it, like "that function is lazy and good for nothing". But to save time, programmers just say "this is deprecated", instead of thinking up a new insult every time. -- Tim Starling
I saw a human pyramid once. It was very unnecessary. - Mitch Hedberg
[TimStarling] "What OS is your server running on?" [Anonymous] "Windows 95. And PHP keeps making Windows crash."
on twitter: wrote a wikipedia article by pen today: gonna mail it to Jimbo
<domas> quick, hurry compile your kernels
<Bryan> everybody hates php <Bryan> but that doesn't really matter
Mental notes are for poor people who can't afford real notes.
p858snake: edit via sms.... wtf thats like 140 character max
<cirwin> svip: your comment is my comment, except wrong
<flyingparchment> have fun being an evil capitalist overlord <AryehGregor> Will do.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, go to #mediawiki for help :)
[In relation to single letter interwikis] Tim Starling: Simple solution: delete Wikiquote.
Homesick C developers write null as NULL because they want to believe that it is a macro defined as ((void*)0). This is not necessary.
<flyingparchment> we invented computers so i wouldn't have to walk all the way over there
vvv: We came to the conclusion that the current template system indeed sucks
<RoanKattouw> DreamWeaver won't let you edit those? That's stupid <flyingparchment> s/ won't let you edit those//
<Brack10> Mediawiki is the best thing that ever happened to me :)
<^demon> Bugzilla's permission systems suck.
<Reedy> 1. Replace | with {{!}} <Reedy> 2. ????? <Reedy> 3. Profit!
<^demon> Reedy: Don't you want 30 installations on your localhost? <Reedy> I don't have any on my localhost :o <RoanKattouw> ^demon: Of course you want 30 wikis on your localhost, so you can destroy the wrong one <^demon> Shut up.
<Chzz> Whoever fixed up the edit summary box to turn red to show when too long, etc. ***THANK YOU*** big improvement; finally, a GOOD change! I want your babies.
I will commit a new version using -e. Please check if it works there (alternatively, send me a Mac :) --Platonides
<TimStarling> MediaWiki is useful for everything, it can simulate nuclear weapons blasts or feed your cat
<^demon> Ok Reedy you need to stop doing everything I'm about to do.
<RoanKattouw> I was in a LinAlg course when I first visited the office, where of course we drew "Vector vs. Monobook" sketches on the whiteboard
<domas> we should migrate to nosql <domas> then we wouldn't have all these tables/fields problems <domas> and could have more agile development! <domas> and everything would just work
<brion> let's party like it's 1994
<Platonides> if you haven't installed it, you don't have it installed
Tim Starling: "Switched to debhelper 7 since it's the first version of debhelper designed for use by humans (as opposed to Debian maintainers)"
<domas> platonides is awesome
<Dantman> That's why I need a browser <Dantman> I don't memorize large lists of functions from different languages
<^demon> qdb: You should ask in #mediawiki-i18n. The guys who run hang out there. <qdb> [16:39] --> You are now talking on #mediawiki-i18n * ^demon kicks himself, walks away *very* sheepishly.
<avar> .. I always knew there was somthing odd about Chad, he's secretly british <avar> Why else would he configure debian with en_GB.UTF-8 as the default locale ?:) <p858snake> because you like correct english and utf8?
<TimStarling> yes, I could enable raw HTML <root-80686> TimStarling: great, thanks <TimStarling> I would first have to be bat-shit insane <TimStarling> but that shouldn't be a problem, let me just take some drugs
<Tiptoety> You know you deal with too many users when you block them in 2008, then come back and give them userrights in 2010.
<^demon> MaxSem: $wgTitle? Really?
AryehGregor throws rocks at everyone generally, then gets back to work
<flipzagging> well, I'm confused about GENDER
* ^demon can give Bugzilla the lovin' it needs
<TimStarling> anyone here? <larne> don't ask if anyone's around, just ask your question <TimStarling> thanks for that pearl of wisdom larne <larne> np
<guillom> I edit-conflicted myself on bugzilla ¬_¬
<adam_miller> End of the day ArticleAssessment commit. Progress was made. True story.
<TimStarling> no, I restarted it <TimStarling> properly, with a big kill -9 stick <TimStarling> not by touchy feely stuff
Q: How many Wikimedians does it take to change a light bulb? ... A: All of them, everything is by consensus.
<TimStarling> tiff_out_of_service? <TimStarling> like a sign on a vending machine?
TimStarling> I managed to push a change, at least: <Ashlee> I'm surprised you didn't just add an OBSOLETE file and import it into SVN. <TimStarling> I probably will if I have to do it a second time
<guillom> note to self: when you remove the power cord before adding your battery, the computer shuts itself down.
<guillom>\ subscribed once, subscribed forever; you can never quit developing for MediaWiki
<Ashlee> Free as in beer. <Reedy> You've been lied to, there's no such thing as free beer <apergos> where is this mythical free beer of which you speak? <Reedy> It's got strings attached <apergos> hahaha. see?
<TimStarling> ok problem solved, wikipedians don't deserve action=parse
<^demon> !sequel is Reedy likes it when you say SQL as Sequel :D
<avar> I can't believe it's not SQL!
<codurr> ^ SVN Sucks <Reedy> ^ What he just said <jorm> ^ What he just said
"I've always assumed that it was a feature...It might be a bug, sometimes it's hard to tell the difference round here." --DuncanHill
<Reedy> Computers Suck.
<felicity_> hm, so asterisk isn't as hard to use as it appears, it's just badly documented <Reedy> Badly documented open source software? Well I never...
Huray! This is magic! I love the software. Thank you!!!
Q: How many programmers does it take to change a light bulb? ... A: Can't be done, it's a hardware problem.
<Reedy> 23:07, 6 June 2006 tim marked it deprecated <Reedy> heh <RoanKattouw> That's "only" 4 years and a few months ago
<RoanKattouw> Wait what <RoanKattouw> Proprietary software that does *not* run on Windows? <RoanKattouw> And it's not even Apple?
<RoanKattouw> It [UploadWizard] doesn't care if there were errors, it just moves on \ <vvv>That's a very Soviet behaviour
<Reedy> !domas <mw-bot> I don't know anything about "domas". You might try: !blame !nosql
<Reedy> i can't drink atm <freakolowsky> mouth glued shutt? <^demon> freakolowsky: If his mouth was glued shut how could he talk to us right now? <^demon> Stupid question.
<ialex> Raymond_: why the hell you use $wgUser->getSkin() while being in a Skin object?
<^demon> IRC cabal already discussed this :p
<Reedy> * Reedy barfs <Reedy> danese, can you beat your contacts at apple around the head please? <Reedy> It seems they're trying to make me and Roan cry <ArtemisRich> Reedy: She's not actually looking at her computer right now...but I'll make a note of it. (To Danese: please beat Apple) <felicity_> shitty code in an Apple product? that's impossible, everyone knows Apple is infallible and their products are completely perfect
<Reedy> i was trying to think of 3 letters swear words <ChristianAdamski> fuk ?
I don't have bureaucrat access to my own life!
"Remove shitty ass useless fucking ampersands that just make it harder to avoid fucking strict notices" -- aaron, r35219
<brion> " Change version number from '1.6alpha' to '1.6devel' so know-it-alls who bitch about how we're running alpha software can shut the fuck up"
<RoanKattouw> Lesson of the day: don't try to be clever and rename a directory /and/ the files in it in the same commit
<Platonides> or at least they should be documented so we could reproduce it <p858snake> !b 1 | Platonides <mw-bot> Platonides:
<Dinoguy1000> now for more wierdness... has anyone told you your voice is sexy, brion? <brion> Dinoguy1000: actually yes, i am a sexy sexy man. what can i say?
<TimStarling> I just had to figure out the contents of your LocalSettings.php using my extra-sensory powers
<Bryan> if this weren't goddamn wikimedia, I would be totally surprised that people are accusing each other about incivility about line breaks
<Bryan> I think complaining is general is good practice because it eventually improves MediaWiki <Reedy> <Bryan> I think complaining is general is good practice because it eventually improves .*?
<Reedy> LewisCawte, developers hate documentation. {{fact|date=Start of time}}
<TrevorParscal> dude, you have a deep fryer, how bad can you life really be?
<Nikerabbit> RoanKattouw: what happened to $wgWhateverVersion? :o <RoanKattouw> We killed it with fire <RoanKattouw> May it rot in hell <^demon> \\$wg\\w+ sucks!
<jorm> you kids these days, with your yum and apt-get and so forth. <jorm> in my day, installing stuff was *hard* <^demon> jorm: Yeah, must've sucked having to build all your library dependencies by hand. <^demon> Like, really sucked. <^demon> I pity you
<RoanKattouw>: I wish we had a X-Squid-Dont-Mess-With-My-Headers-I-Know-What-Im-Doing-Just-Go-Away: true header
<Nikerabbit> putting a cat in a microware result in a broken cat
<Sean_Colombo> RoanKattouw: I <3 you. Just sayin'.
<domas> hmmmm, urwiki needs more lolcats
<^demon> Long term evil plans :) <brion> that'd make a great domain name... <brion> not to be confused with
<ashley> $wgEnableGlobals XD
Social networking is like email on crack
domas about DPL: "abandonware"
<bawolff>\ Shirley: creating a wiki is like creating a baby, yes you should have a good reason to create one, but if you don't for whatever reason, you should have an _extra_ good reason for killing one
Tim Starling: "Like the Christian concept of freedom from sin, we can only strive to fix bug 1, we can never actually fix it."
[^demon] I miss the old days. When the only way you knew the site was updated was by watching the admin log or wikitech-l
<TimStarling> when I wrote Preprocessor_DOM, I left a cache-shaped hole in the code
<^demon> It was protected by the "ssshhh, don't mention it" cipher ;-)
"a programmer is someone who spends two weeks automating a task that takes 10 minutes"
<midnight426> Anyone know where in the MediaWiki source code is where it changes newlines to BRs and double-newlines to P HTML tags? <Bryan> midnight426: includes/parser/Parser.php <Bryan> (you don't want to look into that)
<bawolff>: I don't think anyone has every used "that makes sense" in reference to mediawiki:Sidebar before, ever. :P
<^demon>: I actually interact with other human beings face to face. <^demon>: I know, I'm weird like that
r83994 * tstarling * Committing so I can revert it without being too sad.<br />r83995 * tstarling * Revert r83994, no longer needed
Psychosis>\ well the solution is simple, just delete PPFrame_DOM::expand() and Parser::braceSubstitution() domas>\ :***** \ <domas>\ I want your babies \ <Psychosis>\ that won't break anything will it? :)
Anyway, my suggestion would be to recognize that it becomes skull-explodingly impossible to address every imaginable concern in a single poll/RfC/whatever. --Tryptofish
"There's no reason C code can't be secure, beautiful and readable. It's just a matter of good habits." --Tim Starling
Whether you use Git or Subversion, you still need people with brains reading code (Tim)
<Daniel_WMDE> using mediawiki as a one-person notepad is like mowing your lawn with a tank
* ^demon whistles while mw compiles <^demon|away> thank god <^demon|away> we can finally use the "My code's compiling" excuse!
<p858snake|l> most places don't need that though <p858snake|l> so its pointless to add it <Happy-melon> that's pretty much the definition of an extension
<brion_>\ the road to hell is paved 40 bytes at a time
<vvv> What's the current development/deployment model we use? <Nikerabbit> Commit then flee!
There's only one thing worse than magic: hidden magic. (Hannes Landeholm)
<brion> why do jquery.each and have different param orders on their callbacks :PPP <Reedy> Sounds something like PHP would do
TimStarling: "It should be harder for future developers to screw up. I don't really trust developers to read comments, even when they are written in capitals."
<yuvipanda> is there an API for search? * yuvipanda rtfms <Reedy> yes <Reedy> yuvipanda, visit <Reedy> press ctrl + f <Reedy> type words <Reedy> PROFIT
<domas> folks, we need to add more slaves to db9/db10. so that when someone runs 6 hour INSERT statement, more slaves get lagged by that much. :)
"And yes, I know the tests take forever to run. Get yourself a fast machine with an SSD..." --Rasmus Lerdorf
hashar: Oh, I saw #wysiwyg in your identity card, and I thought it was your surname
hashar: Roan> why arent you with us! you are alone in your room when you could be... hacking with us!
<^demon>\ You can join the mile-high club. \ <^demon>\ The elite few who've fixed the site from 40k feet.
<gmaxwell> Man, Does this mean that wikimedia uses animal testing?
< Reedy> Ryan_Lane, we're nearly at internet pollution saturation point! < Ryan_Lane> delete delete delete!
2011-05-15 <wikibugs>: (FIXED) Wikimedia cluster should reverts back to MediaWiki 1.3 -
"Also, there is both a Brion and a Bryan. There is no such thing as a Bryon though." (bug 20512)
<^demon> I love my mom, but I don't let her touch the preprocessor.
If this is bad in any way, please change. If it's not, just let it be and don't demand I make a mathematical proof of the universe making sense :p -Jeroen De Dauw
<TimStarling> binasher: I like you, why weren't you here two years ago?
<RoanKattouw> This is embarrassing. It's 3am in Sydney and Tim still has the best ideas
<TimStarling> ehcache > mysql
<Reedy> domas, you might've just killed the site... <domas> I know
domas: "who are you, and on what did you base your opinion? in the end, everything is a user issue, we shouldn't do anything."
[jorm] Nobody noticed and it got deployed at least to TranslateWiki, where they started to cry...
You have written the patch? And you have regression tested it? Sorry, can't release not enough developer time.
<Myra> "Why aren't there more people to help me whenever I demand it? What do I pay you people for???"
Tim: "Years ago, I tested LOCK IN SHARE MODE on InnoDB. I was unable to find a use for it apart from error generation."
<brion> we can't read your computer's mind so don't know what to check until we can see some of it ;-)
<brion> man what did i come into this channel to do like 4 hours ago :) // Brion loves helping :D
<brion> "Like this revert on Facebook"
<neilk_>\ hey, I don't know if you've noticed, but we run like a metric assload of wikis.
<RoanKattouw> For $7k, you could get a very nice $2k laptop and spend the rest on a lavish vacation to Australia or something
<TimStarling> it's hard to be serious when you're talking about time travel
Brion on image rotation: Poop! Nobody wants sideways coffee, it’ll just spill all over that shiny laptop.
<ulfr> Alright, I just have to assume it's fueled by black magic and sorcery then <^demon> Yeah, there's a lot of that.
<Reedy> If in doubt, escape moar
neilk: There are a million subtle ways in which this just won't be the web, and it will drive people nuts. You can forget about user scripts. Or your browser extension that does spellcheck in Linear B or whatever.
<Nikerabbit> I looked the code for rlike and didn't find where it does this. Can you point me to it? <vvv> $pattern = preg_replace( '!(\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\)*(\\\\\\\\)?/!', '$1\\/', $pattern ); <Nikerabbit> I thought that was ascii art :)
<^demon|away> git is scarier than puppet. <robla> that's sorta like saying "amputation is scarier than eye surgery"
<mark> I like disruptive progress <RoanKattouw> haha <RoanKattouw> It's the wiki way
<^demon>It's 20-f'ing-11 and we don't have conflict detection on UserRights.\ ^demon facepalms
<johnduhart> Really? Semantic Web Browser? <^demon> Someone still needs to write Semantic Release Notes. <^demon> And Semantic Special:Version
Essentially, the recaching operation could be doing ~35 times fewer queries, that should help. --Roan
"write this cool application that helps us hire people easier! Okay, now write an app that helps us fire those same people!" -- jorm on reedit
We must believe in free will. We have no choice. -- Isaac B. Singer
<Aaron|home>\ 1% of the error types are responsible for 99% of the output
<mutante> root is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
< hasharCodeReview> PHP SUCKS A**!!!! we can't do stuff like : continue if( $foo === 'bar' ); < TimStarling> or ($C,$_,@\\)=(($a=$/[1]*4)*5+1, q||x(0x20).q|\\||.chr(32)x(0x10).q$*$.chr(0x20)x(0x10).(pack("CC",124,10)), sub{s/.\\|(\\s*?)(\\S)./\\|$1$2/}, sub{s/\\|(\\s*?).(\\S)/ \\|$1$2 /}, sub{$2.$1.$3},sub{$tt=(3*$tt+7)%$C}, sub{$1.$3.$2});
<hashar>\ you know, sometime people just make mistakes\ <MaxSem>\ for some of them, they get executed <MaxSem>\ it's life
Your chicken, your egg, your problem.
<OrenBo> what's an nfs server amongst friends?
<varnent> it's hard to bump a Bishop from one's schedule <sumanah> varnent: just move them diagonally?
<brion> i am ... baffled
< LauraHale> And then I procrastinated by going to a seminar on procrastination.
<gwicke>\ after flying back I debugged Barack Obama
[15:07] binasher: it might have worked if i escaped the $ but ghetto backticks work there for sure
<Morbus> did mediawiki get native zebra striping in 1.17 or 1.18? <TimStarling> zebras are not native to mediawiki <TimStarling> they live in africa
[18:57] TimStarling: puppet likes user crontabs for some reason [19:01] TimStarling: I fixed this once already, but it looks like it has been very carefully unfixed
Despite the name, this MWDebug class doesn't handle debug logging -- Tim on r105123
<TimStarling> so a function returns null and we see sweden's coat of arms everywhere.
[18:14]\ TimStarling\ unfortunately my psychic debugging skills don't extend as far as actually telling you what line of code the issue is in
<MrZ-man> though knowing MediaWiki, its probably still confusing to use - $wgDontNotUnDisenableInstantCommons
<^demon> Docs exist solely for developers to go "omg you didn't read the docs!" when people ask common questions. In practice, nobody reads docs before asking questions.
<Ryan_Lane> drphil: I would also like to receive help with putting passion back into my relationship with preilly
God gave us offset parameters for a reason. -- Tim Starling at r88883#c17334
<awjr> i heard you wanted to chat about my sticky cookies?
brion wanders off into svg dreamland… leaving a <path> of breadcrumbs for his return
<Nemo_bis> lol, did you have to flood the channel like that to fix a space <Nikerabbit> Nemo_bis: yes I always give more or less information than requested
<hashar> brion: it is good to see you merging changes <hashar> can't wait for some CAPSLOCK revert message :-D <brion> WHAT COME ON I'M NICE
<Ryan_Lane> I want to stab someone right now <Ryan_Lane> I'm going to take a little bit to find who did this <Ryan_Lane> and I'm going to stab them
<preilly> yo dawn I heard you like YuviPanda so I put some YuviPanda in your YuviPanda
<Reedy> $copyright = $copyright; <Reedy> lol
<robla> git off my lawn <-see what i did there?
"What you see here in this issue is one of the edge cases (how often do you use large numbers in PHP?) where it does not work well."
<Jens_WMDE> i must say, Reedy looks nothing like I imagined. when i heard that the british devop/infrastructure guy is to come over, I imagined a unix wizard with a Gandalf-style beard :)
[11:03]\ RoanKattouw\ When I say "the US" I really mean "the entire world except Europe"
<Damianz> The only time I reboot is when I move house
<Reedy> $oldLang = $wgLang; $wgLang='en'; wfMsg( 'foobar' ); $wgLang=$oldLang;
<Qcoder00> I've found a bug <Nikerabbit> I've found hundreds... I usually report them to
[21:36]\ TimStarling\ fusion power is just a sci-fi fantasy designed to keep physicists in jobs
08:47 < yuvipanda> Growing up sucks, since you can no longer freely attentionwhore
<TimStarling> I mean, if you configure CN to give a banner to 50% of people, you wouldn't be surprised when it gets an impression rate equal to 50% of page views
<saper> what's a084ddab1f6b0ed412a2e722732db3b1cebfea35 ? <Reedy> A hash <saper> "They gave me technically correct, but completely useless answer."
<Reedy> Mobile staff are weird. <Reedy> Can we all join in?
<tfinc> i'm just wrapping my brion around all of this
<Schroeder> hello i want to pruchase mediawicci but i cant find a place to purchase it on microsoft website
<muqman> hey, i am using the alpha so do i just rename the file: skins/myskin/MySkin.i18n.php to: skins/myskin/MySkin.i20n.php?
<liangent> why can't I see AAAA records with: dig <mark> need new glasses?
<MaxSem> thus all the recognition lies on the shoulders of squid <MaxSem> AND SQUIDS DON'T HAVE SHOULDERS!
"Ben Loblaugh (blobaugh): FileRepo refactoring, Azure support ... Sorry, that should be 'Ben Lobaugh'. I blame Sumana for the Arrested Development jokes." --Tim Starling
You can't win against a unicorn, you just can't. --RobLa
<awjr> i am so in love with git stash. <awjr> don't tell sarah.
<RoanKattouw> I'm sure terrorists use Microsoft Excel to manage stuff, that doesn't mean Microsoft supports terrorism, right? ;)
<TimStarling> what does +1 mean anyway? <Brooke> Reviewer has a working mouse.
I also vote for any proposal which increases the number of kittens I get to view on a daily basis. -- Leslie Carr
< harej> This Wikimedia thing is awesome. They hold business meetings on this archaic communication platform from the 80s!
<@^demon> Ok, bot's been in timeout long enough. Now, is everyone going to stop treating it like it's a toy? Bots are serious business :)
<bawolff> ^demon: Holy shit gerrit looks beautiful! <bawolff> That's all I came on irc to say
marktraceur> siebrand, high priest of l10n, has decreed it so. Let us feast and be thankful.
<user> !blame <wm-bot> Whatever happened, it's Domas' fault. For everything else, there's `svn blame`.
<TimStarling> doc comments are docs that's why they are called doc comments
<jorm> Please let us know when it is feasible to execute you.
Brooke> I try emoticons sometimes.
jorm: If you ask nicely, I'm certain we can send you some chicken pox.
TimStarling> so it doesn't matter how fast your language is, it's always possible to write slow code in it
<ashley> because fuuuuuuuck, CSS and JS on WMF wikis is a big fucking mess <ashley> (feel free to quote me on that ;-) I know what I'm talking about)
<marktraceur> <-- incidentally, "Funky Array Magic" is the new name for my band
<^demon> I'm finishing off the puppet manifest and rebuilding the whole instance. <hashar> would it need a component on the receiving instance or is that just about having a git daemon listening? <Ironholds> it's cute how you guys have this conversation like those are real words ;)
Yes, what the world needs is another horribly confusingly named foundation. After we establish the MediaWiki Foundation, we can start work on the MikiWedia Foundation and the WediaMiki Foundation. ;-) -- MZMMcBride
<marktraceur> bawolff: Welcome to 2012, how was the trip? <bawolff> marktraceur: scary
<domas> I love that Reedy doesn't have root <domas> I don't trust him anyway
<domas> omg 1.5 <domas> don't trust reedy with shell <domas> he will deploy 1.5 everywhere <Reedy> It's the future! <Brooke> 1.5 is bigger than 1.20. Everyone knows that...
fix syntax terror. [r80249]
<[KrusheR]> ashley should i use git or svn repositories? <ashley> as much as I hate saying this, git; since WMF will not support SVN from mid-2013 onwards and TWN plans to drop i18n & l10n support for SVN extensions in October 2012 (IIRC), I've had to move the things I wrote to git, despite that I'm not a git fan at all <Brooke> ashley: Git happens.
'The real WTF is the common perception that unit testing wastes time rather than saving it. A software project that's in trouble "doesn't have time for unit testing". In the same way that person facing a tiger "doesn't have time buy a gun".' - arty,
<MatmaRex> and what are you suggesting i do, gather up random people from #wikipedia-XX and have them come here and shout at you in broken english? :/
<emijrp> Coordinating people to write encyclopedias was expensive. Well, until 2001.
<Eloquence> Every time I enter a query into Gerrit's search box my mind is prepared for an Application Error overlay. It's like a small electric shock performed by the UI.
* saper wants to have Ph.D. on differences between 'git checkout' and 'git reset'
Any advice that includes use of a time machine may be safely disregarded.
<Sid-G> This is a sufficiently advanced bug, it is a feature.
<ToAruShiroiNeko> domas are you around by any chance? <domas> nope
Last time I checked, JavaScript didn't have the ability to generate different attributes depending on whether or not its host segfaults.
[Relative URIs] They're not not recommended, it just says their usage is rare. Which is a statement that was true in '05, and which we made false in '11. –RoanKattouw
<kaldari> jesus! this is the artcle on Islam!
< sumanah> I have just discovered that Roan is a GitHub repo specifically, he is a per-model url purging Django app "Roan uses only an optional setting: ROAN_PURGE_URL"
Silke> I am not a coder so I did not realize I have to ask for a style guide before starting. Now I got a lot of contradictory comments from the "tabs vs. spaces universe", but nobody has actually given me feedback
<MarkTraceur> Then again, I've seen projects in the past that just used free licenses for convenience, so if you don't actually want people to use free software, you could probably ignore this safely.
<TimStarling> just saying, since I'm a java developer, I have to tell you that PHP is not a real language and you couldn't possibly do anything complex in it
<TimStarling> "AssumbleUploadChunks" <-- That's not how you spell assemble. <TimStarling> "Re-assable" <-- Neither is that.
<aharoni> I could test Mongolian myself - I know the Mongolian alphabet and it was easy.
<ori-l> Susan: the problem w/having an abrasive genius as a role model is that it's generally much easier to emulate abrasiveness than genius
Nikerabbit> I've missed writing docs
[Wiki read-only for update] emacsen> I have an opinion I want to force on others! How can I do that without the wiki?!
<jorm> Can we just agree from this day forward that "put it in your user css" is not an acceptable solution for any problem, ever?
<TimStarling> E3Experiments <TimStarling> let's nuke it from orbit
<TimStarling> shutting down the datacentre in tampa would obviously be a bigger win for technical spending than removing the watchers count from action=info
Isarra: "I mean trusted like how we trust, say, YuviPanda to not do anything stupid because he's competent and reliable and stuff."
<tfinc> ugh.. i hate Xcode updates <brion> what you don't love downloading 2-3 gigs of dev tools over and over again?
<Nemo_bis> thought that your "can not reproduce" meant "I see always without parentheses"
<hashar> mediawiki has been written by a biotechnologist, a cinema student, a poker player, a quantic computer doctor and others. None were PHP expert, so you can definitely help.
<Ryan_Lane> are there docs for this anywhere? <@^demon> Hahahahaha. You must be new here.
<TimStarling> are you saying you think something is calling putenv("TZ=BST") on our servers? <TimStarling> grepping MW+extensions for putenv shows no such code
18:11 ori-l: relax everyone, i'm here. 18:11 ori-l: i'll proceed to assist tim by making uninformed guesses about what might be the issue
<TimStarling> springle: Elsie doesn't appear to know what he is talking about <TimStarling> so don't let him distract you
I think it's better to have well-managed, versioned cruft than chaotic cruft. -- Tim Starling
<jdlrobson> MaxSem: Seems that after creating a page called Foo my tests are breaking :(
<wikibugs> (NEW) CirrusSearch: Prefix search for “L’Oréal” and “L Oréal” should match [[L'Oréal]] - <Reedy> It's because they're worth it.
<Reedy> In non Soviet America, MaxSem watch you
21:14 < hashar> Nemo_bis: you are so helpful that sometime I think you are a bot :-D
ChanServ destroyed my life –marktraceur, 2014
<Gloria> Marking it easy will help.
<Emufarmers> If the patch fits, you must commit.
<hoo> yeah... better be safe than offline :D
22:04 akosiaris: aaah i got it. All your bases are belong to us. Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated :-)
22:00 hashar: akosiaris: we will rewrite history before our kingdom fall appart 22:02 akosiaris: and since history is written by the victors that means we will be victorious. And yet our kingdom will fall apart. Weird....
00:05 sumanah: I am silly Sumana
^d: Such is life. * YuviPanda gives ^d a potato
bawolff> ha! 3 hours later I got video to play with TMH using java. Seems like it all came down to a missing space.
apergos: first thing we do, shoot all the certificate authorities | ori: then we take berlin
<ori> every time you feel like killing a global, replace it with a camelcase class hierarchy that consists of the config var name followed by 'Context'
^d: If you want to name your extension something and one already exists.... ^d: Just slap v5 on the end.
<Nikerabbit> Nemo_bis: that's like making cars out of rubber so nobody would die
MaxSem smacks ApiFormatXml | MaxSem: horse poop | MaxSem: HORSE POOP | MaxSem: !!!HORSE POOP!!!
<^d> (It's easy, I promise)
<bawolff> Nemo_bis: I enjoy your use of formal logic symbols on bug 47694
"Really, our staff don't do much." --Dan Garry
brion> isn't it the worst when your code works but only on other peoples' computers? :D
<^d> manybubbles: Anytime we improve performance a baby Ori gets its wings :)
<Deskana> Customer: "Where is this information stored?" Reedy: "In many places, but yet, also nowhere at the same time."
<Deskana> Customer: "How much will this cost me?" Reedy: "A defined amount of money, in some currency recognised by... someone."
<Reedy> Progress: rand() %
"Yeah... we really should actually support Hebrew at some point." -- ^demon
[02:42]\ <bd808>\ I want to be calmer under "omg the sites fucked" [02:43]\ <ori>\ I wasn't calm, just groggy :D
Nikerabbit> I know I've asked a good question when I don't get an answer in the talk page
"It's the Flow way or the highway." - Maryana Pinchuk
[Tim Starling] Let's drop support for PHP 5.3 after we switch the WMF servers to 5.4 or later. I think it would be inconvenient to be unable to run our software on our own servers.
James_F: Because nothing says "wikitext is easy" like "呢格={{{96}}}|{{{85}}}|{{{87}}}|{{{86}}}|{{{95}}}|{{{97}}}|{{{5}}}|{{{6}}}|{{{7}}}}}{{<includeonly>Subst:</includeonly>生命棋34".
<gwicke> hardikj, I'm bad at naming; the only thing I'm good at is inventing names ending in -oid
<aude> deploy is easy, except to figure out what to do when things break
<ori> it's 2014 and our OS uses four octal digits which are used as bit masks to represent permissions
<RoanKattouw> Nikerabbit: Looking through your code now. So much cleaner than the old code, it's night and day <Nemo_bis> and he says he doesn't like Virginia Woolf <Nikerabbit> woof
never trust any software that claims to be able to fix itself -- it usually lies [bawolff]
(re: discussion of 3-legged unicorns) <robla> I don't see what's so find a unicorn and chop off its leg. sheesh
brion> i haven’t done a lot of explicit pair programming, but running ideas past someone else and having a couple people working on something can do wonders yes!
Getting an organisation into the mindset of mentoring - into the mindset of "yes we need to train new people because they can do awesome things even if they screw up sometimes on the way there". – Lydia
<Nemo_bis> Whenever you find yourself re-implementing the MediaWiki parser, you can be sure you're doing something wrong.
Nikerabbit> I also recommend using --force
<^d> My browser cache is hot for wiki, is yours?
<biberao> Premature end of
<Coren> o/~ Hey, I just met you, and this is crazy, but here's my changeset, so +2 maybe. o/~
<sumanah> MaxSem: any other tips for what makes it easier for a Windows dev? <MaxSem> yes. get a Mac
bawolff> Gerrit dependencies are like drugs: Just say no kids. It will make you look 20 years older from the stress
^demon|away> Nemo_bis and I removed 31 preferences from Special:Preferences today. What did *you* accomplish?
Thank you very much. Frankly, I didn't think people would much care what I had to say. -- Happy user on
<bblack> To configure RAID settings, Press Control-Shift-Meta-Alt-&, then hold down the letters F and U while tapping F3 twice
Nemo_bis> BPositive: a -1 is never reason for not submitting to gerrit
<godog> prefixing important passwords with / has saved me more than once btw
Nikerabbit> I know I have been looking into one task for too long when I get "battery low" warning
<_joe_> I'll merge your patch if you can prove me you're afk :P <logmsgbot> I think ori's afk for real
<paravoid> we should rename to
K4-713> I love it when you git blame something ridiculous and discover that it was you.
<ori> mutante: PROBLEM - Number of monitoring apps is CRITICAL: CRITICAL: 20.00% of data exceeded the critical threshold [500.0]
Ori: In a more perfect universe, gzipping something twice would compress it twice as well. In this universe, it inflates the response size and breaks content decoding on Safari.
On a scale of one to evil, that's super evil.
[18:07:26] <bblack> I'm sipping PBR and using my 28.8K dialup connection to scan networks with SATAN to find unpatched Solaris 2.4 servers with sendmail vulnerabilities
^d> Adding features is like making a baby. It's easy to say "no" beforehand. But basically impossible to kill after the fact. Moral of the story: don't have kids!
<bd808> robla: We just need to write a security review bot :) <sumanah> oh dear, Chris is away for ONE DAY and you start replacing him
<RoanKattouw>\ I briefly broke wikitech by rm -rf 'ing most of VE, but then I put it back
<+marktraceur> Grawwww <+marktraceur> Someone mixed spaces and tabs <+marktraceur> MARK SMASH
[Ricordisamoa] "angry emoticon" [MW search] Did you mean: "andré emotions"?
<Reedy> Where's the regex for irc rc entries? <RD> .* <Reedy> RD: Don't be greedy
<ponie> I imagine oversight would be a fire <Cookies52> Now, that's a right I'd love to have...
<+icinga-wm> PROBLEM - puppet last run on rbf1002 is CRITICAL: CRITICAL: Epic puppet fail <Reedy> gj puppet
<marktraceur> You can PM me if you want, and I can ignore you if I want. :P
<addshore> dont worry, I wrote tests ;p <yurikR> famous last words...
<marktraceur> ...he shouldn't just diarrhea update patches all over Gerrit.
<MatmaRex> "enhancement" is the status to use when you wish to show someone that other people don't care about the bug they filed
<marktraceur> A lack of weirdness on Commons. First time for everything.
<MaxSem> fuck you jerkins
AaronSchulz> legoktm: I remember reading that code years ago...I think it makes sense after an hour
<greg-g> twentyafterfour: that sring of merges from Reedy up there ^ this is what is known as "Reedy spam" aka "when Reedy goes through the mediawiki-config backlog and MERGES ALL THE THINGS!
* Reedy kicks jenkins
If this were in Aramaic you'd be reading the other way
Taking a single step might sound easy, but it's hard enough to know which direction is forward. –Lars Aronsson
<andre__> I am not a private support channel. IRC means patience. <Carmela> I thought it means Internet Relay Chat.
<spagewmf> anyone have a copy of "Authoring Better Commit Messages" by Tolstoy and Krinkle
TimStarling> we've used crashy code before, like APC when it was new, and PHP 4
<TimStarling> if scap took 2 seconds, we would never have made sync-file <TimStarling> well, maybe that's not quite true --- let's just say we would have removed it long ago
<Reedy>\ Quick, vote on the bug! That makes them get dealt with quicker!
PHP is not a RTL language…
< spagewmf> figured it out, it's leftover cmcmahon_bug.rb where I was trying out your textarea bug :) <chrismcmahon> awesome, people name bug files after me :-)
[20:57:31] <multichill> Looked at it with Reedy some time ago and after he was done crying, he filed this bug
<Ironholds> wait, I'm an IDIOT. <YuviPanda> wow, finally he found out by himself...
<TimStarling> anyway, if you plot a curve, I think it is fair to say that preference bloat has not gone away as we have hired more engineers
Yuri Astrakhan: and at the end of the day, there is no such thing as a perfect "idiot-proof" way, simply because there are a lot of brilliant idiots.
git #e707717d - Code wars: the empire strikes tap
<marktraceur> James_F: Reading the policy would restrict me from being able to bend it to my will <James_F> marktraceur: Spoken like a true Wikimedian.