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2016-04-06 Architecture office hour log
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Authored by • RobLa-WMF on Apr 6 2016, 9:59 PM.
21:04:34 <robla> #startmeeting https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/E158
21:04:35 <wm-labs-meetbot> Meeting started Wed Apr 6 21:04:34 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is robla. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:04:35 <wm-labs-meetbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
21:04:35 <wm-labs-meetbot> The meeting name has been set to 'https___phabricator_wikimedia_org_e158'
21:04:47 <robla> #topic Channel is logged and publicly posted (DO NOT REMOVE THIS NOTE) |Logs: http://bots.wmflabs.org/~wm-bot/logs/%23wikimedia-office/
21:04:59 <robla> hi folks!
21:05:21 <robla> MaxSem: did you see anything?
21:05:30 <MaxSem> see where? :P
21:05:45 <robla> :-)
21:06:14 <robla> anyway, this is just a general ArchCom office hour....no major updates
21:06:37 <robla> those watching closely on Phab might have seen some activity from ArchCom in the past hour
21:07:19 <robla> the activity feed here: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/profile/52/
21:07:53 <Scott_WUaS> (@robla! thought I would be at an all-day Stanford Law China Guiding Cases Project, but it turns out to begin a little after 5 ... have to leave soon after 3 to get to Stanford ... Thanks for starting #WorldUnivandSch in IRC last week ... very much)
21:08:06 <bd808> I case anyone missed it, the first patch for the dependency injection/service locator work was merged during the hackathon. :)
21:08:34 <robla> bd808: I saw that....cool!
21:08:40 <robla> have a link handy?
21:09:06 <bd808> https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/264403/
21:09:35 <robla> ah, right, which also links to https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T124792
21:10:11 <bd808> We had a well attended discussion on the general topic as well -- https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/wmhack2016_DI
21:10:35 * robla follows the link to skim the notes
21:13:18 <robla> bd808: what is the general consensus on the RFC from what you saw at the Hackathon? is it something that's effectively a done deal and that ArchCom should just follow through on, or is there advice from ArchCom that's still desired?
21:13:57 <bd808> I think it was all down to implementation details at this point. Daniel needs code review and +2s
21:15:02 <robla> ok, good to know
21:15:13 <bd808> There are almost certainly going to be some things that come up as usage expands. We may need some do & don't guildelines once we know what to do or not do.
21:16:22 <robla> the bulk of the prose for T124792 should probably move to mw.org</processwonk>
21:16:22 <stashbot> T124792: RFC: Service Locator for MediaWiki core - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T124792
21:18:21 <bd808> yeah. there is a lot of stuff in docs/injection.txt that should end up on wiki
21:18:23 <robla> anyway, one thing we talked about at the ArchCom planning meeting was the stuff everyone is shepherding, and also "what do we plan for next week's IRC meeting?"
21:18:35 <TimStarling> we've just been discussing that in #mediawiki-parsoid
21:18:57 <TimStarling> gwicke and cscott agree that it could be T130567 followed by T114445
21:18:58 <stashbot> T114445: [RFC] Balanced templates - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T114445
21:18:58 <stashbot> T130567: WIP RFC: Hygienic transclusions for WYSIWYG, incremental parsing & composition: Options and trade-offs - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T130567
21:19:20 <TimStarling> that is, the general RFC first and then the specific prototype implementation
21:19:38 <robla> TimStarling: wonderful!
21:20:13 <robla> I'll skim the backlog on #mediawiki-parsoid in just a sec, but generally that sounds like a good plan
21:20:37 <robla> anyone think of anything more important for us to discuss at the IRC meeting next week?
21:20:47 <MaxSem> um...
21:21:00 <robla> oh, right....also....mbstring
21:21:10 <robla> *that* I think we can clear up this week
21:22:13 <robla> so, Timo, Tim, and Gabriel were there, and they agreed that the mbstring requirement should be approved
21:23:03 <robla> T129435 that is
21:23:04 <stashbot> T129435: RFC: drop support for running without mbstring - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T129435
21:23:32 <robla> MaxSem: so...you're probably just waiting for someone to +2 the patch, right?
21:23:41 <Scott_WUaS> (@robla: just posted this in #WorldUnivandSch [14:21] <Scott_WUaS_> @robla Is there a possibility please that we could start a RFC re the WUaS questions now in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/E158, and possibly for next week, or how would this work best?)
21:24:59 <MaxSem> robla, my patch is ready for merge from my perspective. if that's all that needs to be done, let's merge it
21:27:07 <robla> MaxSem: sounds reasonable. any other higher priorities for next week's discussion other than the balanced template disucssion?
21:28:29 <robla> gwicke: you believe that T130567 should be the umbrella for "balanced template" disucssions?
21:28:30 <stashbot> T130567: WIP RFC: Hygienic transclusions for WYSIWYG, incremental parsing & composition: Options and trade-offs - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T130567
21:29:48 <gwicke> robla: it's still a bit rough as written, but I think we can extend it a bit to provide the overview that we need for this topic
21:30:01 <gwicke> subbu has written a good summary as well
21:30:41 <robla> gwicke: which summary is the summary you prefer?
21:30:50 <gwicke> I don't care that much about the RFC number, it's more about starting with a high-level problem description, describing the challenges and building some agreement on requirements
21:31:34 <gwicke> robla: I think right now T130567 is closest
21:31:35 <stashbot> T130567: WIP RFC: Hygienic transclusions for WYSIWYG, incremental parsing & composition: Options and trade-offs - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T130567
21:31:47 <subbu> oh sorry .. discussion is happening here ... i lost track and was talking in #mediawiki-parsoid.
21:31:59 <gwicke> there is also https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T57524, which is very similar but older
21:32:36 <robla> subbu: yeah, we're having Phab event E158 now
21:32:40 <gwicke> subbu: is there another text we should consider as an introduction to the general problem?
21:32:57 <subbu> i can provide one by next meeting .. i can add it to whatever rfc already exists.
21:33:17 <gwicke> that would be awesome
21:33:32 <robla> subbu: cool. next meeting is https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/E159
21:33:37 <subbu> k
21:34:09 <gwicke> subbu: if you want, T130567 is yours
21:34:10 <stashbot> T130567: WIP RFC: Hygienic transclusions for WYSIWYG, incremental parsing & composition: Options and trade-offs - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T130567
21:34:25 <subbu> let me come up with some text first.
21:34:56 <robla> subbu: awww...that's no fun! "ready, fire, aim" is the best order! ;-)
21:36:48 <MaxSem> bd808, I'll add ext-mbstring to composer.json but anything else should be made in a separate commit - objections?
21:37:11 <bd808> works for me
21:37:41 <robla> I've started putting ArchCom planning meetings in Phab as well, btw. The one we just had was https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/E157 . Next one is https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/E156/2
21:37:56 <bd808> MaxSem: looks like we only have ext-iconv in there right now
21:38:01 <MaxSem> aha
21:38:24 <bd808> ext-mbstring is in "suggest"
21:39:34 <MaxSem> bd808, amended
21:41:04 <bd808> MaxSem: +2'd
21:41:13 <MaxSem> weeeeeeeeeeeee
21:41:56 <robla> bd808: great, thanks!
21:42:48 <robla> so, I dropped a comment in E159 about next week's tentative agenda: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/E159#1649
21:44:57 <robla> I think we can wrap up a little early, unless anyone has anything to add
21:45:26 <robla> or any questions about ArchCom/Architecture stuff generally
21:45:42 <quiddity> robla, can you summarize next week's topics in 5-10 words, for Tech/News ?
21:46:14 * robla gives it a shot
21:47:23 <gwicke> not an easy task, in 5-10 words ;)
21:49:02 <quiddity> "Hygienic transclusions and balanced templates" ?
21:49:03 <Scott_WUaS> :)
21:49:09 <robla> Next weeks conversation: T130567 (regarding how to better transclude templates for Parsoid) and T114445 (an aspect of the implementation)
21:49:09 <stashbot> T114445: [RFC] Balanced templates - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T114445
21:49:09 <stashbot> T130567: WIP RFC: Hygienic transclusions for WYSIWYG, incremental parsing & composition: Options and trade-offs - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T130567
21:49:19 <robla> gwicke: how's that?
21:49:45 <gwicke> quiddity: that's pretty good
21:50:01 <quiddity> heh, I'll mix and match. thanks :)
21:50:16 <robla> :-)
21:50:27 <gwicke> it'll be difficult to provide more background in a few words, and I think this evokes the right intuitions
21:51:00 <robla> gwicke: TimStarling which meeting type do we anticipate having next week? https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Good_meetings
21:51:03 <gwicke> more racy: "The future of templates"
21:51:40 <gwicke> or transclusions, rather
21:51:46 <robla> I'm assuming this will be a "Problem definition" discussion still, but let me know if you're further in the process
21:52:07 <gwicke> yeah, I think it'll be heavy on problem definition
21:52:10 <TimStarling> I think gwicke's part is field narrowing?
21:52:39 <TimStarling> maybe that is overly optimistic :)
21:52:53 <TimStarling> let's call it problem definition, I almost said that
21:52:59 <robla> lol
21:53:13 <robla> sounds good
21:53:56 <robla> ok....anything else before we wrap up?
21:54:41 * robla will enter #endmeeting in 60 seconds
21:55:45 <robla> 5 seconds...
21:55:51 <robla> #endmeeting
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