Unsanitized wikitext export of [[Commons talk:Flow/tests]]
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Authored by Catrope on Mar 16 2018, 11:32 PM.

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	Mar 16 2018, 11:32 PM

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	{{delete\|reason=This page and all its subpages need to go per [[Commons:Village pump/Proposals/Archive/2018/01#Proposal to uninstall Flow]].\|day=3\|month=March\|year=2018\|subpage=Commons talk:Flow}}
	Test freely, here. Please add bug-reports and feature-requests at [mw:Talk:Flow mw:Talk:Flow] or locally at [[Commons talk:Flow]]. Thanks! (Board description edited by   — <span style="font-size:115%;background-color:lightyellow">[[User:Jeff G.\|Jeff]] [[User:Jeff G./talk\|G. ツ]]</span><small><sub> please [[Template:Ping\|ping]] or [[User:Jeff G./talk\|talk to me]]</sub></small>, [[User:Quiddity (WMF)\|Quiddity (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Quiddity (WMF)\|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]), [[User:DannyH (WMF)\|DannyH (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DannyH (WMF)\|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]))

	==Testing==

	(Topic title edited by [[User:Guanaco\|Guanaco]] ([[User talk:Guanaco\|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]), --[[User:Josve05a\|Jonatan Svensson Glad]] ([[User talk:Josve05a\|talk]]), [[User:Zhuyifei1999\|Zhuyifei1999]] ([[User talk:Zhuyifei1999\|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]), [[User:Yann\|Yann]] ([[User talk:Yann\|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]))

	{{Hatnote\|RESOLVED :D :D :D... --[[User:Josve05a\|Jonatan Svensson Glad]] ([[User talk:Josve05a\|talk]]) 01:12, 19 September 2016 (UTC) (Edited by [[User:Guanaco\|Guanaco]] ([[User talk:Guanaco\|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]))}}

	Testing Flow after [[Commons:Village_pump#Flow]]

	Editing somebody else's comment! {{FlowMention\|Yann}}

	? [[User:Yann\|Yann]] ([[User talk:Yann\|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 21:45, 11 August 2015 (UTC) (Edited by [[User:Thgoiter\|тнояsтеn]] [[User talk:Thgoiter\|⇔]], [[User:Dschwen\|Dschwen]] ([[User talk:Dschwen\|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]))

	Hey :-) [[User:Rzuwig\|<font face="Comic Sans MS" color="black">'''Rzuwig'''</font>]][[User talk:Rzuwig\|<sup><span style="color:red;cursor:help">►</span></sup>]] 19:43, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

	Whats up? [[User:Menner\|Menner]] ([[User talk:Menner\|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 17:32, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

	Wow. This is cool. [[User:Eteethan\|Eteethan]] ([[User talk:Eteethan\|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 02:13, 15 January 2016 (UTC)




	==A very critical review==

	So far, I'm not a huge fan of this "Flow" thing. I kinda like my talk page on Wikipedia the way it is, and it looks like this would require a major reworking for several of our bots, including one bot that's pretty essential to Wikipedia: ClueBot NG. Lowercase sigmabot III (archives discussions automatically), Legobot (several tasks related to messaging users and archiving), and MediaWiki message delivery (self-explanatory) would also have to have work done on them. One more thing: This doesn't seem to support inter-wiki links. I tried linking my talk page on enwiki, and it wouldn't work. <b><span style="font-family:Oswald;color:black">—</span> [[User:Gestrid\|<span style="font-family:Oswald;color:maroon">Gestrid</span>]] ([[User talk:Gestrid#top\|<span style="font-family:Oswald;color:black">talk</span>]])</b> 04:53, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

	Hi Gestrid, it is a 'work in progress', and needs a ''lot'' more features/fixes/changes (much like a start-quality article), but I can answer your feedback above:
	* There is an API, and much of it is already implemented in Pywikibot. There is already full support for MassMessage. (see details in subsections of [mw:Flow/Architecture/API#Use_cases mw:Flow/Architecture/API#Use_cases], though some updates to that are needed). There is work needed, particularly with better docs to help bot-owners update their code. All of that is tracked in subtasks of [[phab:T107093]].
	* Archiving isn't a part of Flow (no more broken links to since-archived topics!) but the current method of infinite-scroll (vs pagination) isn't ideal for everyone (e.g. me!), and is one of the many things that could/should be changed (perhaps with some user-options, because some people do like it).
	* Inter-wiki links do work, but you need to add the preceding colon, and/or the specific project prefix (i.e. Use <code><nowiki>:en:User:Gestrid</nowiki></code> or <code><nowiki>w:en:User:Gestrid</nowiki></code>, but not <code><nowiki>en:User:Gestrid</nowiki></code>) otherwise it becomes an inter-language link. (Same as in standard wikitext)
	More feedback welcome & appreciated! Ideally at [mw:Talk:Flow mw:Talk:Flow], to help with centralization. [[User:Quiddity (WMF)\|Quiddity (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Quiddity (WMF)\|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 20:02, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

	Another problem I just noticed is that I didn't get an email when you replied just now. I did get a Notice (not an Alert, a Notice), but no email. <b><span style="font-family:Oswald;color:black">—</span> [[User:Gestrid\|<span style="font-family:Oswald;color:maroon">Gestrid</span>]] ([[User talk:Gestrid#top\|<span style="font-family:Oswald;color:black">talk</span>]])</b> 20:18, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

	Did you get the email now? It may have been queued.

	I don't have any problems regarding emails these days, but there is sometimes a small delay. [[User:Trizek (WMF)\|Trizek (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Trizek (WMF)\|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 10:57, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

	No, still haven't got it, and I've got all three options checked under "Email options" in [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-personal]]. <b><span style="font-family:Oswald;color:black">—</span> [[User:Gestrid\|<span style="font-family:Oswald;color:maroon">Gestrid</span>]] ([[User talk:Gestrid#top\|<span style="font-family:Oswald;color:black">talk</span>]])</b> 17:11, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

	Have you checked emails option for "Flow" in [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-echo]]? [[User:Trizek (WMF)\|Trizek (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Trizek (WMF)\|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 18:11, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

	I hadn't, but now I have. I didn't know I had to turn that on. <b><span style="font-family:Oswald;color:black">—</span> [[User:Gestrid\|<span style="font-family:Oswald;color:maroon">Gestrid</span>]] ([[User talk:Gestrid#top\|<span style="font-family:Oswald;color:black">talk</span>]])</b> 18:52, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

	Yeah, that's unclear. I'll push forward on that change, and illustrate it with your experience. [[User:Trizek (WMF)\|Trizek (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Trizek (WMF)\|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 19:05, 2 December 2016 (UTC)




	{{Archive top\|result=\|status=resolved}}

	==Try [[Template:SPARQL]]==

	{{SPARQL
	\| query = SELECT DISTINCT ?item ?itemLabel ?description WHERE {
	?item (wdt:P106/wdt:P279*) wd:Q3391743.
	?item schema:description ?description.
	SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en". }
	FILTER(STRSTARTS(?description, "Painter"))
	FILTER((LANG(?description)) = "en") } # foo bar Flow flaw workaround comment
	}} workaround works!? hurray! no syntax highlighting though :( [[User:Marsupium\|Marsupium]] ([[User talk:Marsupium\|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 17:28, 12 September 2017 (UTC)



	{{Archive bottom}}


	==Test==

	{{Hatnote\|{{Tracked\|T78346}} [[User:Trizek (WMF)\|Trizek (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Trizek (WMF)\|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 12:22, 13 September 2017 (UTC)}}

	The option "source editing" should propose the same taskbar / menu bar (specially with the edittools) than our current "edit source". [[User:Christian Ferrer\|Christian Ferrer]] <sup>([[User talk:Christian Ferrer\|talk]])</sup> 11:12, 13 September 2017 (UTC)




	{{Archive top\|result=ok [[User:Christian Ferrer\|Christian Ferrer]] <sup>([[User talk:Christian Ferrer\|talk]])</sup> 11:49, 13 September 2017 (UTC)\|status=resolved}}

	==Test again==



	{{Archive bottom}}


	==Error in nomination for deletion==

	There is an error when we use the button "Nominate for deletion". The text is:

	"An error occurred while trying to do the requested action. To nominate this project_talk for deletion, please edit the page to add the { {delete} } template and follow the instructions shown on it.
	A detailed description of the error is shown below:
	API request failed (no-direct-editing): Direct editing via API is not supported for content model flow-board used by Commons_talk:Flow/tests. <i>at Wed, 13 Sep 2017 17:08:53 GMT</i> <u>served by mw1290</u>
	The tag to be inserted into this page was { {delete\|reason=this nomination is a test, don't delete it.\|subpage=Commons talk:Flow/tests\|year=2017\|month=September\|day=13} } "

	I'm wonder, if same errors will occur when we will use VFC to tag files with copyvios/No source/ No permission...... tags. Will the users no longer automatically be notified? will one have to do it manually? [[User:Christian Ferrer\|Christian Ferrer]] <sup>([[User talk:Christian Ferrer\|talk]])</sup> 17:15, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

	It is possible to fix the script, by using the new classes related to Structured discussions (Flow) detailed [[mw:Flow/Architecture/API\|on the API]]. [[User:Trizek (WMF)\|Trizek (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Trizek (WMF)\|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 17:24, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

	I am a layman and this technical aspect escapes me, when you say "fix the script", do you mean the script(s) we use to notify the users, or a script relative to Flow? [[User:Christian Ferrer\|Christian Ferrer]] <sup>([[User talk:Christian Ferrer\|talk]])</sup> 17:38, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

	The scripts used to notify the users, sorry. I'm not a developer but it seems to be simple: I've seen some communities fixing the scripts with success. [[User:Trizek (WMF)\|Trizek (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Trizek (WMF)\|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 17:50, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

	The scripts used to notify the users has to work on Flow and on the "no" Flow talk page, but I guess this is possible, I hope...
	It should be a good thing to have a kind of "test account", with a few files uploaded, in the purpose to test really all the thing we usually do with user talk pages. [[User:Christian Ferrer\|Christian Ferrer]] <sup>([[User talk:Christian Ferrer\|talk]])</sup> 18:00, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

	The scripts used to notify the users have create a new Flow topic. This is what PaStec does on French Wikipedia. This tool is very similar to your case, because it is used to post a message to all users when a page they have contributed to is nominated for deletion (Here i[https://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki%3AGadget-PaStec.js&type=revision&diff=139512200&oldid=137826054 s their fix]). [[User:Trizek (WMF)\|Trizek (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Trizek (WMF)\|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 18:15, 13 September 2017 (UTC)




	==Notification==

	I added this [[Commons talk:Flow/tests\|page]] to my watch list, I will be noticed if a new topic is created, and I will be noticed if someone reply in this topic. But what about if someone edit a topic that I not edited myself? [[Topic:Tg8hmw5fl6cc5c35\|example]], will I be notified if someone edit this topic? [[User:Christian Ferrer\|Christian Ferrer]] <sup>([[User talk:Christian Ferrer\|talk]])</sup> 18:18, 13 September 2017 (UTC) (Edited by [[User:Trizek (WMF)\|Trizek (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Trizek (WMF)\|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]))

	You will only be notified if someone edits one of yours messages (like I've done on your message above). Otherwise you can check the History page. [[User:Trizek (WMF)\|Trizek (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Trizek (WMF)\|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 18:20, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

	This is not an advanced, we have a lot of user talk pages in our watchlists, specially the administrators has a lot of talk pages in their watch list, and it is useful to be noticed to every edits without to come and add each topic in the watchlist. This is not good. [[User:Christian Ferrer\|Christian Ferrer]] <sup>([[User talk:Christian Ferrer\|talk]])</sup> 18:25, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

	This needs improvements, absolutely.

	For what it worth, as a volunteer editor on French Wikipedia, I'm using Flow daily and I'm watching many topics. Edited messages, when they happen, are quite visible, because they are marked as "edited" and because the changes are visible for experienced users. I know they may be not visible sometimes, but in the end, the original author is warned about the changes.

	[https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Topic:Ty3afiw134mdwu6a&action=history Flow history shows] the edited comments explicitly as well. This is IMO better than a diff on talk page, where you can notice a message change only by reviewing all diffs one at the time. [[User:Trizek (WMF)\|Trizek (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Trizek (WMF)\|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 19:36, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

	Just an exemple, of how I came here. The [[Commons:Village pump/Proposals]] is in my watchlist, I noticed [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Village_pump/Proposals&diff=258391584&oldid=258391534], and the relative discussion. And then I came here, however with Flow, maybe I would have a notification of the beginning of the topic, but not of all the edits of the discussion, and it is sometimes the number of the edits, or who made the edits, or the edit summary of all tthose edits that bring the attention. And though Flow is maybe not intended to be used in such talk pages, it is the same principle. [[User:Christian Ferrer\|Christian Ferrer]] <sup>([[User talk:Christian Ferrer\|talk]])</sup> 19:50, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

	I'm sorry, but I'm not sure to understand what you mean.

	You will have notifications (web and email, at your preference):
	* when a page you watch has a new topic
	** then you will not have any new notification about the new topic, except if you decide to watch it.

	* when a topic you watch has a new message
	* when a post you have created is edited
	If there is multiple replies on a topic you watch, you will get a notification, and all new messages will be highlighted with a blue border, on the left.

	There is also the same updates on your watchlist. [[User:Trizek (WMF)\|Trizek (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Trizek (WMF)\|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 10:21, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

	Yes, I wondered if I was sufficiently clear, the issues are not the notifications ("your alerts" or "Your notices") at the top of the page. With Flow a topic that is not yours or that you did not put yourself in the watchlist is therefore not in your watchlist. To keep my example above, [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Village_pump/Proposals&diff=258391584&oldid=258391534 this edit] (the last one in the page when I clicked on (my) watchlist) is the thing that attracted my curiosity, and how did I notice it? simply because the [[Commons:Village pump/Proposals]] is in my watchlist, and in the extend it is not the first edit of the topic, with Flow system I would not have noticed the discussion in the VP and this test page.

	I know very well Flow is for talk pages, specially user talk pages, but the principle is the same, it is sometimes one edit (and the edit summary) in a specific topic (not specially in your watchlist) that draw attention. [[User:Christian Ferrer\|Christian Ferrer]] <sup>([[User talk:Christian Ferrer\|talk]])</sup> 11:41, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

	Thanks for reexplaining. :) There is some improvements to make to the Notification system for Structured Discussions, but they are not scheduled for this year.

	However, there is [[:Meta:Grants:Project/ClemFlip/Wikifab/Various types of transclusions of Flow discussion boards\|a grant proposal]] from a group of developers which aims to create a Flow news-feed for all users on pages they watch (a sort of inbox). I've discussed a bit with them (c'était facile, ils sont français), and I think they would be open to the idea of including every activity on a page you watch to the feeds. Then, you can then monitor all activity on a dedicated page like on [[Special:Notifications]]:
	{\| class="wikitable"
	!
	!Page watched,
	but not the topics
	!Topic you watch
	\|-
	\|New topic
	\|Notification
	\|Notification
	\|-
	\|New reply
	\|Feed
	\|Notification
	\|-
	\|Message edited
	\|Feed
	\|Notification
	\|}
	On most wikis where Structured Discussions are used, the Notification system is enough. This is why cases like the one you mention are not included on [[mw:Structured Discussions#Development status\|this fiscal year developments]]. [[User:Trizek (WMF)\|Trizek (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Trizek (WMF)\|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 13:52, 14 September 2017 (UTC) (Edited by [[User:Christian Ferrer\|Christian Ferrer]] <sup>([[User talk:Christian Ferrer\|talk]])</sup>)

	Great, I don't ask so much as "including every activity on a page you watch to the feeds" what looks like the history page :), including the last activity on a page you watch to the feeds, with the choice to ignore some edits as in [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist]], in addition to the current Flow notification system, would be sufficient and a great improvement. But I think we understood ourselves :) [[User:Christian Ferrer\|Christian Ferrer]] <sup>([[User talk:Christian Ferrer\|talk]])</sup> 18:19, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

	I guess we do. If not, utilisons une autre langue commune. :)

	(And thank you f[https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Topic:Ty3afiw134mdwu6a&action=compare-post-revisions&topic_newRevision=ty5hnd3q4o4hr48c or the link fix], btw. It is the first notification I've read. :)) [[User:Trizek (WMF)\|Trizek (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Trizek (WMF)\|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 18:53, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

	Not that I do not wish to speak French but the Commons community comes from all the world, and we can more easily be understood, and by much more persons, speaking English, therefore I try to avoid to use the French. Mais d'accord :), mais alors seulement si il devient impossible de faire autrement. [[User:Christian Ferrer\|Christian Ferrer]] <sup>([[User talk:Christian Ferrer\|talk]])</sup> 19:18, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

	I'm on the same mood: I only use French is people talk to me in French. Otherwise, I'm totally for inclusion! [[User:Trizek (WMF)\|Trizek (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Trizek (WMF)\|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 09:52, 15 September 2017 (UTC)




	==The Flow/tests page is for...==

	testing. [[User:Alsee\|Alsee]] ([[User talk:Alsee\|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 15:09, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

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