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Please change the local name for gom all over Wikipedia and Wikimedia to कोंकणी / Konknni
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All over Wikipedia and Wikimedia , Goan Konkani (ISO code gom) is called "गोवा कोंकणी / Gova Konknni", which is incorrect. Please change the name as follows:

  • gom: कोंकणी / Konknni
  • gom-deva: कोंकणी
  • gom-latn: Konknni

This is what the speakers of Goan Konkani call their language, and this is the name that had been used for the project right until gomwiki was launched in June 2015, when it was suddenly and unexpectedly changed to "गोवा कोंकणी / Gova Konknni".

Please see the local discussion and consensus at:समाजाचे_मुखेल_पान#Correct_names_for_Goan_Konkani

Event Timeline

The_Discoverer raised the priority of this task from to Medium.
The_Discoverer updated the task description. (Show Details)

Please could someone assign this task to an appropriate person?

Change 230503 had a related patch set uploaded (by TTO):
Amend name for Goan Konkani

The_Discoverer added subscribers: siebrand, Nikerabbit.

I noticed a comment in the code review:

The name of the language was changed on 2007-07-18 from Goanese Konkani to Goan Konkani which means the name has been used for this language, for a long time.
Also conflicts with language code: kok, the Konkani macrolanguage.

The point of this task is not to change "Goan Konkani". This task is to change "गोवा कोंकणी / Gova Konknni" to "कोंकणी / Konknni". Hence, there is no issue. The local name has nothing to do with the name in SIL.

Please do not block the code review.

With regards to the discussion at the code review, I would like to point out that this point about leaving out the geographic identifier was discussed at the local discussion:

knn is basically a group of dialects and not really a homogeneous language, and the chances of the request for creation of a knn wiki are miniscule. IMHO, we are more likely to see a request for a wikipedia for an individual dialect of knn, for example an Agri wikipedia, rather than a knn wikipedia.

In the unlikely event that there is a request for a knnwiki, we can always rename to disambiguate at that time, can't we?

Please can we go ahead with this change with the understanding that if in the future there is a request for a Maharashtrian Konkani (knn) site, then we will change the name for gom to गोंयची कोंकणी / Gõychi Konknni, which is the correct translation for Goan Konkani.

Take the example of the English Wikipedia, where the title Konkani has referred to the language Goan Konkani (gom) for over 10 years now, while a separate article exists for Maharashtrian Konkani, that was created in 2011 by me, a speaker of Goan Konkani. This should give you an idea of how unlikely it is that there will be a request for knn.

It would be difficult to find a single page on the internet that identifies as Maharashtrian Konkani (knn), the reason being that Maharashtrian Konkani is just a term used for a group of dialects.

In the local discussion, I had initially suggested to use गोंयची कोंकणी / Gõychi Konknni, but this elicited strong responses from users, who did not understand why the word 'Goan = गोंयची = Gõychi ' was there, because no one calls the language 'Goan Konkani' in reality. I had to explain to them that this wasn't something that I came up with, and it wasn't an attempt to restrict ownership of this language to Goans.

Hence, I request you all to go ahead with कोंकणी / Konknni. The chances of a knn site is extremely slim, but if that happens, and they also want to use कोंकणी / Konknni, then we can switch the local name of gom to गोंयची कोंकणी / Gõychi Konknni for disambiguation purposes.

Nemo_bis changed the task status from Open to Stalled.Aug 23 2015, 8:16 AM

Gerrit comments should please move here, fragmented discussion on the merits of the request is unhelpful.

I'm marking this stalled because we have contradictory information and AFAICT no reliable source. Please provide sources for either side; ideally, get some language expert to correct whatever error there is in SIL.

  • I'm not saying that there's a mistake in SIL, just that the on paper classification does not represent the ground realities. Just because SIL has assigned a language code to a group of dialects, doesn't necessarily mean that there will be a request for a wiki with that language code.
  • As far as evidence is concerned, I've pointed out that there's absolutely no activity in the language 'knn' on the internet, so it is unlikely that there will be a conflict for the local language name 'कोंकणी / Konknni' in the future. If that does happen, we can always rename later to 'गोंयची कोंकणी / Gõychi Konknni'.
  • In addition, the name currently being used, 'गोवा कोंकणी / Gova Konknni' is totally incorrect, and should be changed at the earliest.
The_Discoverer raised the priority of this task from Medium to High.Aug 23 2015, 9:49 AM

Changes status to 'High', because currently, Wikipedia is using a local name 'गोवा कोंकणी / Gova Konknni' that doesn't make sense in the language. I think this merits fixing quickly.

General request: When it comes to expressing discontent, please criticize ideas, not people. Thanks for your understanding.

I'm sorry Mjbmr. I'm deleting my unhelpful comment.

Regarding the comment at the code review

"They would think this Wikipedia is for Konkani macrolanguage (kok)".

The Konkani macrolanguage (kok) comprises Goan Konkani (gom) and Maharashtrian Konkani (knn). If someone from the Goan Konkani (gom) community thinks that this Wikipedia is for their language, then no harm done; they are correct, this Wikipedia is for their language. As for the Maharashtrian Konkani (knn) community.. as we've discussed earlier, no such community exists online. If a knn community does turn up, we are able to deal with that.

Also, it may be noted that in the English Wikipedia, the language code kok redirects to the article 'Konkani language', which refers to Goan Konkani (gom).

Nothing to worry about.

Hence, I request you all to go ahead with कोंकणी / Konknni. The chances of a knn site is extremely slim, but if that happens, and they also want to use कोंकणी / Konknni, then we can switch the local name of gom to गोंयची कोंकणी / Gõychi Konknni for disambiguation purposes.

I've got to admit that this makes sense to me. "कोंकणी" is not incorrect, although it may be ambiguous. If disambiguation is ever needed in practice, I'll recall this suggestion and change to "गोंयची कोंकणी".

Regarding the negative reviews at the code review for the name "कोंकणी / Konknni", what we are doing is that people who do not speak either gom or knn are going to decide what the local names should be by ignoring the request of the Wikipedia editing community that speaks the language, and instead, going by the theoretical information given in SIL / Ethnologue.

It would be understandable if such a decision were being taken based on a request by the knn community, or at least if there was some basis apart from SIL / Ethnologue to lead us to believe that there is a real need to disambiguiate the local name.

To me, it doesn't make sense to block the request to call Goan Konkani (gom) as "कोंकणी / Konknni" based on the hypothesis that speakers of Maharashtrian Konkani will want call their language "महाराष्ट्रीय कोंकणी" (Maharashtrian Konkani) or "कोंकणी". Who's to say they won't localise it as "Agari"?

One must keep in mind that the present local names: "गोवा कोंकणी / Gova Konknni" and "महाराष्ट्रीय कोंकणी" seem to come from Mjbmr, who despite his best intentions, does not seem to be a speaker of gom or knn, and these names seem to be mere transliterations of the names "Goa Konkani" and "Maharashtrian Konkani".

Please, let's un-stall this task.

@siebrand and @Mjbmr, please could you discuss here why you are not in favour of "कोंकणी / Konknni"?

Please also go through all the discussion that's taken place here until now in order to avoid repetition.


Restricted Application removed a subscriber: Mjbmr. · View Herald TranscriptFeb 29 2016, 8:42 PM

The original reporter told me on IRC that they're no longer working on this task, i.e. on providing the required information which is needed to satisfy this request (most importantly, an authoritative source for the new name).

Instead, they are working on a smaller change to "गोंयची कोंकणी / Gõychi Konknni", which still includes the "Gõychi" / "Goan" part. That change is tracked at T126148: Change the local name for gom all over Wikipedia and Wikimedia to गोंयची कोंकणी / Gõychi Konknni and T137222: Change the local name for gom in ULS to गोंयची कोंकणी / Gõychi Konknni.

To avoid having parallel contradictory tasks, and given this request departs from the ISO 639 names (where gom is "Goan Konkani" and "Konkani" is kok), I'm closing this task for now. It can always be reopened if we get what requested in T106950#1564833.