Remove MSSQL support from MediaWiki core
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Description

This is a proposal to remove MSSQL support from MediaWiki core. Previous discussions were in favor to keep it based on the assumption that it is being used. However, the differences between its schema amb MySQL plus the current lack of maintenance makes it very difficult to support it effectively. It would be better to be frank and remove it from MediaWiki core.

MaxSem created this task.Sep 26 2015, 1:28 AM
MaxSem updated the task description. (Show Details)
MaxSem raised the priority of this task from to Needs Triage.
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Legoktm set Security to None.Sep 26 2015, 2:12 AM
Legoktm added a subscriber: Skizzerz.
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@Skizzerz is the maintainer for mssql (cc'd him), we've started drafting up https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Moving_database_abstractions_out_of_MediaWiki_core which is related here IMO.

Cut the offensive tone @MaxSem, that was incredibly uncalled for. I spent at least 100 hours developing and testing making sure that it worked for far more than just "basic stuff" when I submitted the patch for support in 1.23. Does it work beyond 1.23? No, I went into it only planning to release updates for LTS releases of mediawiki because I don't get paid for this and there are far better uses of my time. I'll update it for the next LTS version, and the LTS version after that as well, and so on until the internal politics and abrasive behavior around here drive me away from mediawiki permanently (which may end up happening sooner rather than later at this rate; so much for what whole Code of Conduct thing).

If you want to actually do something productive with this, I highly encourage you to check out the linked RFC and assist in getting it rolling forward by providing your comments/thoughts on the infrastructure questions that still need to be answered with it.

Aklapper added a subscriber: Qgil.EditedSep 26 2015, 8:52 AM

Starting a discussion about the future of MSSQL backend support on a technical mailing list (and spending time trying to identify a list of potential problems created by the current situation) sounds like a more sensible approach than quickly dropping two lines of personal impressions (with enough "citation needed" potential) in some issue tracking tool and then drawing questionable conclusions.

Regarding the tone, please see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bug_management/Phabricator_etiquette - that link asks for constructive criticism.

I'm tempted to close this task as invalid.
Not because concerns and impressions shouldn't be discussed but because it's the wrong place and format.

Qgil added a comment.Sep 26 2015, 9:41 AM

For a good restart of this discussion, I propose to make it private while the interested parties figure out the next technical steps. The tone is disrespectful indeed, and @Skizzerz and whoever else has contributed to this project don't deserve it.

Qgil renamed this task from Kill MSSQL support with fire to Remove MSSQL support from MediaWiki core.Sep 30 2015, 1:45 PM
Qgil updated the task description. (Show Details)
Qgil added a comment.Sep 30 2015, 1:49 PM

@MaxSem, I was expecting that you would edit your own writing (or would at least comment here), but at the end I have done it. Please review whether the current description is valid.

Note that my rewrite is no endorsement or opinion on the content of this task. I just wanted to change unrespectful wording into neutral and informative wording. I hope this is enough to continue with the technical discussion.

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Aklapper triaged this task as Lowest priority.Feb 27 2016, 8:22 PM

Thank you very much to the MSSQL Team. You made a good job. Since MediaWiki 1.27.0 the support for MS SQL Server is so good that we use it productive. OK, some thinks are still not perfect, but what’s perfect? Please, don’t cut off MSSQL! We really need it!

Qgil removed a subscriber: Qgil.Jan 3 2017, 8:22 PM

[This bug is pretty dead, so maybe irrelevant now] FWIW, I just attended EMWCon, there was a suprising number of corporate users who use MSSQL support and seem happy with it.

Now that we have usage statistics:

select count(*) as num, event_database from (select * from MediaWikiPingback_15781718 union all select * from MediaWikiPingback_15781718_15423246) t group by event_database order by num desc;
+-------+----------------+
| num   | event_database |
+-------+----------------+
| 18132 | mysql          |
|   606 | sqlite         |
|   366 | postgres       |
|     4 | mssql          |
+-------+----------------+
4 rows in set (0.39 sec)

That's 0.02% usage share.

Please explain what "MediaWikiPingback" is and where it comes from and how it works. Or a link.

Perhaps the way forward is by allowing database drivers in extensions (if we don't already)?
And then moving drivers that we don't want to support in core into extensions?

Prior Art:

Please explain what "MediaWikiPingback" is and where it comes from and how it works. Or a link.

Its a feature in mw core that sends back usage stats. It can optionally be enabled in the installer. the data is stored in the eventlogging dataset afaik.

I think we should keep in mind There is a possibility that mw pingback is undercounting mw installs behind corporate firewalls which is also the installs most likely to use mssql.

I think ideal situation here would be to have db driver extensions. However installer does not support this as of yet.