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Multiple script enabling for Kashmiri
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Description

Author: eukeshranjit

Description:
Kashur or Kashmiri (ks:) is originally written in Sharda script which is left to right. Due to lack of Sharda unicode, devnagari has been used by most of the editors in Kashmiri wikipedia, which is ltr as well. The rtl setting of Kashur hence needs to be changed to ltr. However, a sizable number of population write Kashmiri in Nastaleeq as well which is written right to left (rtl). So, an alternate "bar" needs to be established for Nastaleeq (in rtl) as has been done in Kazakh(kk:) or chinese (zh:) wikipedia. Similarly, an rtl bar needs to be placed for Nastaleeq users in Panjabi (pa:) and an ltr bar needs to be placed in Sindhi (sd:) (for Devnagari) and two alternate bars in Romani, both in ltr for Cyrillic and Devnagari. Please pardon me for putting it this crudely over here but I dont know how to put up these things more precisely. Thanks.


Version: unspecified
Severity: enhancement
URL: http://ks.wikipedia.org

Details

Reference
bz10034

Event Timeline

bzimport raised the priority of this task from to Low.Nov 21 2014, 9:49 PM
bzimport set Reference to bz10034.
bzimport added a subscriber: Unknown Object (MLST).
bzimport created this task.May 26 2007, 2:58 AM

vibhijain wrote:

Please review this bug as this is a major concern for ks wikipedia. Thanks.

node.ue wrote:

Eukesh's statement is misleading. Kashmiri was written in Sharda script in ancient times; it is now written in Arabic (Nastaleeq) script by virutally all speakers. Arabic script is the official script for the language in India. When Eukesh says that "most of the editors" have used Devanagari, he is referring to a single editor who published hundreds of stubs written in the wrong language (Sanskrit), which hardly seems relevant.

Although computer support for the Kashmiri language is still problematic and difficult, Devanagari is not required to be a part of this strategy as it is rarely used to actually write Kashmiri. I also think that Eukesh's devanagari transliteration tool should be turned off by default at ks.wp, since in its current state it impedes development by users who speak the language and wish to write in the official Arabic script.

vibhijain wrote:

Sorry but i don't agree with this, both Devanagari Script and Arabic script should be used for Kashmiri.

node.ue wrote:

This creates an unnecessary barrier to participation for Kashmiri users, the vast majority of whom use the Perso-Arabic alphabet, which is also official script used for the language in the Republic of India. Any minority wanting to write Kashmiri in Devanagari will probably be better to seek a separate Wikipedia, since lossless conversion between the two scripts is not yet possible.

vibhijain wrote:

But many people in the Jammu and Ladakh region uses devanagari.

node.ue wrote:

According to Dr. Rahi, expert in Kashmiri language and literature: "The modern Kashmiri script is Perso-Arabic. It is a standard accepted by people for six hundred years. Most writings, whether by Muslim writers or Hindu writers in the last six or seven centuries, has been Perso-Arabic."

vibhijain wrote:

That seems a little biased, hindu writers mostly writes in devanagari, however bugzilla isn't the right place to discuss all this, please do that on ks wiki.

(In reply to comment #4)

Any minority wanting to
write Kashmiri in Devanagari will probably be better to seek a separate
Wikipedia, since lossless conversion between the two scripts is not yet
possible.

We are not discussing Wikipedia here, but your suggestion would imho likely not pass due to WMFs current language policy.

Generally, having user selectable scripts in MediaWiki would imho be a more convenient and less restrictive solution. What are the precise problems inhibiting an automated conversion between the scripts? Would an algorithmic approach with a limited dictionary of special cases do?

node.ue wrote:

Vaibhav: That is not the case; only a tiny minority of Kashmiri Hindus use devanagari script, and this is a very recent development.

Purodha: I'm well aware of language policy, I was under the impression that languages which were identical but used two different non-convertible scripts could be allowed separate Wikis; anyhow this is all at the total discretion of langcom.

Several of the issues with conversion are outlined here: http://kashmiruniversity.academia.edu/AadilKak/Papers/553013/Building_a_Cross_Script_Kashmiri_Converter_Issues_and_Solutions even with an extensive rule-based system, only 90% accuracy is reached, a level unacceptable for a major reference work (should be over 99%). With regards to the issue of which script is used by whom, note that that document reaffirms what I've said that Devanagari is usually not used for works in the language, but rather mostly for works in Hindi *about* the language (linguistic studies, for example).

I don;t understand who & why, against the will of people of kashmir who use the Perso-Arabic script , started kashmiri wiki in devnagari script ,which the majority of kashmiri papulation can't read .The modern Kashmiri script is Perso-Arabic. It is a standard accepted by people for six hundred years.Kashmiri use the Perso-Arabic alphabet, which is also official script used for the language in the Republic of India.A single person startsd kashmiri wiki in devnagari script , it is like , if a person wants to start english wiki in arabic script with his own will . It is the duty of wikipedia officials to accept or give permission a new wiki only in his actual script. If it is not done then every one write every language in his own script

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Amire80 moved this task from Untriaged to Script conversion on the I18n board.Feb 4 2018, 10:53 AM