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Interwiki links to/from Multilingual Wikisource
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Description

Problem:
It is currently not possible to manage interwiki links to/from multilingual Wikisource (https://wikisource.org) on Wikidata. We want to make it possible to connect pages there with the other language-specific versions of Wikisource so these interwiki links don't have to be maintained in the wiki text anymore.

Acceptance criteria:

  • it is possible to add sitelinks to multilingual Wikisource in Items on Wikidata
  • After adding a sitelink, the sitelink appears on the Item page (in the Sitelinks section), in the API response (JSON, RDF)

Notes:

  • We accept the inconvenience of not being able to link to several pages from the same wiki in the same Item.
  • Sitelinks should show up with language code mul in the sitelinks section of an Item.
  • Sitelinks should show up in the Wikisource sitelink section of an Item.
    • As noted in T204706#4707035 it might be that due to current logic baked into Wikibase code, the sitelink will not be out-of-the-box. If this occurs, the desired section of the sitelinks section is to be agreed on with @Lydia_Pintscher (assessing the cost of handling this case vs the impact of suboptimal experience in the UI)
  • The process of adding such a "special" wiki to Wikidata should be written down for further use in similar cases

Event Timeline

There are a very large number of changes, so older changes are hidden. Show Older Changes
Restricted Application added subscribers: Zppix, Aklapper. · View Herald TranscriptJun 21 2016, 5:11 PM
Thibaut120094 added a project: Wikisource.
Thibaut120094 added a subscriber: Thibaut120094.

This is a know issue and is handled in T54971. Problem is that https://wikisource.org is a multilingual version of Wikisource and can't be handled easily in the current code. See also https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wikisource/Development. I think @Lydia_Pintscher could tell more about this.

thiemowmde triaged this task as Medium priority.Sep 5 2016, 3:46 PM
Candalua added a comment.EditedSep 5 2016, 3:58 PM

This is a know issue and is handled in T54971. Problem is that https://wikisource.org is a multilingual version of Wikisource and can't be handled easily in the current code. See also https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wikisource/Development. I think @Lydia_Pintscher could tell more about this.

Can you or @Lydia_Pintscher please be more specific? The mere fact that wikisource.org hosts content in multiple languages should not be a blocking issue.

Lydia_Pintscher lowered the priority of this task from Medium to Low.Sep 9 2016, 6:22 PM

It is a blocking issue in so far that an item can only link to one page on a given wiki. If several languages are covered on one wiki then we also usually have the case that we have two pages for one concept on that wiki that would both need to be linked in the same item.

It is a blocking issue in so far that an item can only link to one page on a given wiki. If several languages are covered on one wiki then we also usually have the case that we have two pages for one concept on that wiki that would both need to be linked in the same item.

This is a limitation, but I don't see why it should be blocking for this task. We can just link to a disambiguation page. And Wikisource doesn't work like Wikipedia... on any WS (not just the multilingual one) you can have multiple versions of the same text (different edition, different translations...) But still, when the other Wikisources were given access to Wikidata, this was not considered a blocking issue...

The limitation of linking to one page per wiki will be overcome when T128173 will one day be implemented. In the meantime can you please proceed to give Wikidata access to wikisource.org? Are there other technical reasons for not doing it?

Nikki added a subscriber: Nikki.Dec 6 2016, 3:51 PM
Restricted Application added a subscriber: PokestarFan. · View Herald TranscriptJul 25 2017, 11:11 PM
jhsoby added a subscriber: jhsoby.Aug 22 2018, 2:27 PM
Liuxinyu970226 renamed this task from interwiki links to/from https://wikisource.org to interwiki links to/from Multilingual Wikisource.Sep 26 2018, 10:57 PM

It is a blocking issue in so far that an item can only link to one page on a given wiki. If several languages are covered on one wiki then we also usually have the case that we have two pages for one concept on that wiki that would both need to be linked in the same item.

The different pages correspond to different editions of the work, which implies different items anyway.

Jarekt added a subscriber: Jarekt.Jun 10 2019, 3:02 PM

I run into this problem, when dealing with unusual sitelinks, which are not displayed. For example Q62081484 seems to be an empty item with nothing in it other than label in italian, but closer look shows that it also has sitelink to https://wikisource.org/wiki/Li_fioreti_de_mess%C3%AA_san_Francescho. At the moment GUI does not allow you to see, or change it. According to this query there are only 11 items with sitelinks to old wikisource. We need to either remove them and prevent future creation, or show sitelink in GUI. Perhaps in "other sites" section, or as mulwikisource in wikisource section.

It is a blocking issue in so far that an item can only link to one page on a given wiki. If several languages are covered on one wiki then we also usually have the case that we have two pages for one concept on that wiki that would both need to be linked in the same item.

I think this might have been mentioned before in a different ticket, but anyways.

This wouldn't actually be a problem for the multilingual Wikisource. The reason is the way that different editions of works are handled in Wikidata (see WikiProject Books): Each edition of a work should have its own item. Transcriptions on Wikisource are of specific editions of a work. So then, even if there are several transcriptions of the same work in Wikisource, those will still be different editions, and would therefore have separate sitelinks. The problem with several pages on the same item would really only happen for project pages and the likes, but that's already the case for Meta and Commons (which are supported), so I don't think that should be a blocker for this task.

@Lydia_Pintscher Since the issue of multiple links doesn't seem to be a real problem, since Wikisource links should be added to different items anyway (different editions), can we move forward with this? Or is this anything else blocking?

MJL added a subscriber: MJL.Jul 5 2019, 6:50 PM
Ankry added a subscriber: Ankry.Jul 6 2019, 8:37 PM

Ok it seems to work now to add links but they are not shown in the Item -.- Adding to camp for investigation.

Restricted Application added a subscriber: RhinosF1. · View Herald TranscriptDec 21 2019, 4:30 PM
jhsoby added a comment.EditedDec 21 2019, 4:57 PM

Ok it seems to work now to add links but they are not shown in the Item -.- Adding to camp for investigation.

Oh, cool! Which item have they been added to? Could the link be in the Wikipedia section? I have seen that happen in some places (clarification: not on Wikidata, but on tool lab tools) because the db name doesn't end in "Wikisource" but just "wiki" (sourceswiki).

I looked at https://wikisource.org/wiki/Main_Page and followed the "Wikidata item" link in the sidebar.

jhsoby added a comment.EditedDec 21 2019, 5:02 PM

I looked at https://wikisource.org/wiki/Main_Page and followed the "Wikidata item" link in the sidebar.

Oh yeah, no, that is because of some jQuery I added to Common.js that works with [[Template:Interwiki]] which is added manually to pages in the multilingual Wikisource...

RhinosF1 removed a subscriber: RhinosF1.Dec 21 2019, 5:10 PM
beleg_tal added a comment.EditedJan 3 2020, 1:53 PM

Regarding "an item can only link to one page on a given wiki" - this is already the case on some other wikis and Wikidata has means to handle this using Property:P2959 "permanent duplicated item"

For example

https://nn.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_Canada --> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q93359
https://nn.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hn/O_Canada --> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q12715470

For more information see https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property_talk:P2959

Uzume raised the priority of this task from Low to Medium.Jan 10 2020, 12:01 AM
Uzume updated the task description. (Show Details)
Uzume added a subscriber: Uzume.EditedJan 10 2020, 12:06 AM

This should not be a blocking issue if we disregard T206426: Storing multiple sitelinks to a multilingual wiki which I do not think we should consider implementing except for possibly allowing sitelinks to be prefixed (a la Special:MyLanguage/) on their way to their target wiki. See my comment on that task.

As such, I believe we should handle mul.ws as a oldwikisource multilingual wiki in the same fashion we handle other multilingual wikis like: meta, mediawiki, commons, species, wikimania, wikidata, etc.

If we want to renamed oldwikisource across the board (leaving some backwards compatibility for old interwiki links), that is probably a good idea too. I recommend mulwikisource. However, that should not block editors from manipulating Wikidata sitelinks for this wiki (as per Jarekt's earlier comment, apparently 11 Wikidata items already have such sitelinks but they do not display properly on Wikidata entity pages and normal editors cannot otherwise manipulate them).

If we do this and handle this wiki the same as other multilingual wikis this has some implications:

  • this wiki will likely show up on Wikidata entity pages under "Other sites" and not "Wikisource" (we could change the label to "Wikisource monolingual" or similar)
  • if we are on a non-wikisource monolingual site (like English Wikipedia), we need to consider how toolbar interwiki links should show when we have multiple wikisource links: one to multilingual Wikisource and one to monolingual Wikisource in the current language (e.g., English Wikisource).
  • if we are on a monolingual Wikisource site the (e.g., English Wikisource), the toolbar interwiki links should show both other sister projects links in the current language (e.g., English Wikipedia) as well as the multilingual wiki links such as multilingual Wikisource.
  • if we are on a multilingual wiki site how should the toolbar interwiki links look when there is a sitelink to multilingual Wikisource and a monolingual Wikisource in the same language as the current wiki. Potentially two Wikisource links need to be considered. I recommend we specify multilingual Wikisource and then just Wikisource as we currently are doing.

For the most part this is how standalone multilingual wikis are already handled so the number of cases that needs consideration and possible changes should be minimal.

Uzume updated the task description. (Show Details)Jan 10 2020, 12:07 AM
Koavf added a subscriber: Koavf.Jan 10 2020, 1:23 AM
Addshore renamed this task from interwiki links to/from Multilingual Wikisource to Interwiki links to/from Multilingual Wikisource.Feb 18 2020, 1:54 PM
Ankry awarded a token.Mar 4 2020, 10:25 PM
WMDE-leszek updated the task description. (Show Details)Mar 10 2020, 1:12 PM
WMDE-leszek updated the task description. (Show Details)

This is a know issue and is handled in T54971. Problem is that https://wikisource.org is a multilingual version of Wikisource and can't be handled easily in the current code. See also https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wikisource/Development. I think @Lydia_Pintscher could tell more about this.

This has been open for 4 years.

It was possible to add multilingual projects like Commons, Wikispecies and MediaWiki.org. But Wikisource is somehow impossible?

More and more tools build on Wikidata, for example FileImporter (Move-Files-To-Commons) finds the {{NowCommons}} template based on its sitelink in Q5611625, so it can’t offer automatic {{NowCommons}} addition when moving files from oldwikisource. I really hope this will be fixed in the near future.

Sorry folks for dropping the ball on this.
After chatting with @Ladsgroup and reading @Uzume's comment above we can now easily add it to the "other sites" group in the UI. Would that be ok for people? (Making it show up in the Wikisource group is apparently a major major undertaking that I don't think we can justify.)

@Ankry @Zyephyrus @Mahagaja @-jkb- care to make comment for your community? To me it is imperfect though better than not having a link. My biggest concern is that it won't be obvious to users to where to add mulWS links.

AlexisJazz added a comment.EditedThu, Nov 19, 7:16 PM

Sorry folks for dropping the ball on this.
After chatting with @Ladsgroup and reading @Uzume's comment above we can now easily add it to the "other sites" group in the UI. Would that be ok for people? (Making it show up in the Wikisource group is apparently a major major undertaking that I don't think we can justify.)

I suggested the same, so I think that would be good.

@Ankry @Zyephyrus @Mahagaja @-jkb- care to make comment for your community? To me it is imperfect though better than not having a link. My biggest concern is that it won't be obvious to users to where to add mulWS links.

I don't think this would be a major issue. Page creators, page importers, Wikidata veterans and bots will pick up on this fast enough. I'd suspect that's the majority that adds links.

Also we can add an item about this to Tech News if it really happens. (possibly twice: once to announce a future change and again when it's done)