We'd like to:
| Status | Subtype | Assigned | Task | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Resolved | Qgil | T198848 Bootstrap Community Relations | |||
| Resolved | Dzahn | T155683 Close https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/cep and keep the archive for now |
Moving list archives requires that we offline mailman for the duration of the maintainance of said lists move.
Basically, it involves creating a new mailing list, and then moving the archives/mbox contents. This move can also result in re-indexing of the archives, and old archive links would cease function. (We typically remove the old archives, or we're just duplicating extra data on the same system.)
@Quiddity: If you/other list members are ok with the reindexing and having to redo any archive links, then this could be slated for the next time we have to take down mailman for this kind of work. Since it does involve mailman downtime (and thus no list message deliveries during that time), I'm not sure its worth a maint-window for a single list rename. I could be wrong on this, I'm not the one using the list but a simple rename is typically non-urgent.
Also if the archive isn't required at all, and all the 'rename' is for is moving over the settings+members, than this can be done with zero downtime to mailman.
Please advise,
@RobH We'd be happy with just a simple new list, and transfer of settings. Thanks for the clarity!
I.e.
Thanks again.
I neglected to point out, the current archives for cep@ list is https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/private/cep/ and since it is private, requires the users to login to view. Once the list is closed, the ability to add folks to view is impacted.
So will loss of that mailing lists archives for easy web view be an issue? If they aren't needed, can we simply remove the archives?
Sorry for the back and forth, just trying to ensure I cover all the bases. (We don't do mailing list moves very often, so I neglected to ask about the archive access and if needed.)
(Sorry for delay in replying.)
No, we don't need to grant new team-mates access to the archives. (We just search our personal mail-client archives when needed. Plus, new team members don't have reason (or time!) to dig through the month-by-month web-archives).
Will removing the archives make it easier for your future maintenance? And/Or, will it make it possible to auto-forward the old address to the new address? If so (for either), then go ahead and remove the archives. If not, then perhaps leave them (just because deleting things is scary).
Thanks for helping us get it right!
So whoever does the next mailman downtime can do this work as well. I don't want to 'claim' this, because I may not be the person doing that work.
It sounds like nothing is really being moved now, other than the user list? If that is the case, this can be done manually without downtime, just by a manual subscription of the userlist.
Ditching the archives makes this far, far easier, since they won't be accessible over time. (There won't be a way to reset your password to access the archives of a disabled list.)
I'm pretty sure we can forward, but since its a private list, it may not be possible. I'll have to check.
I have added the question about whether we should keep archives or not to our next team meeting's agenda.
I've updated the details in the task description, just to give clarity and confirmation on all the above discussion. Thanks.
(if you don't mind me asking, if the name needs the lists. bit in it, can we then get a redirect/shortcut/whatevs like tc@wikimedia.org?)
@RobH just checking, do you (or whoever can be assigned to this task) still need anything to proceed?
Let's put this on hold for the time being while some internal discussions in the team are ongoing.
Let us know if you are still interested in list renaming.
A renaming script can be used (https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailman#Rename_a_mailing_list) which automatically does most of the needed steps. If we can stick to the default way of doing this and just run that like on T172624#4201958 then it's much easier now to do this than it used to be when we had to manually do all this and take things down as Rob described.
OK, in more detail. We want to close https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/cep and keep the archive for now (maybe in the future we decide to delete it, but we would create a new task if this is the case).
Can we repurpose this task to close the mailing list or do you prefer us to close this task as Invalid and create a new one?
(And feel free to claim this task if you are working on it. I am just keeping it not to forget about it.)
Sure, we can repurpose this task. But let's update the title and description to reflect the desired outcome.
I've attempted a description update. Quim or Erica will have to confirm or fix the plan though.
The title and description of this task are correct, and they seem to [provide everything SRE needs to proceed.
Is this a request to rename cep@lists to commrel-support@lists?
Renaming means the subscribed users, the config and archives are copied over from one to the other. It also means the requested redirect of email (and http for the listinfo page) gets added. It also means later editing the archives is possible but URLs that link into archives will likely change.
Or is this a request to remove/disable cep@lists and create commrel-support@ without copying anything over? In that case the old archives can be kept and are separate from any new archives but you will have to manually edit config and copy subscribers over etc. The requested mail forwarding could be added manually, the listinfo page would not redirect and exist for both separately.
We can only offer "rename" or "disable + create new list" but not a custom mix of it.
Hi @Dzahn, We already have and are using a new replacement team-list at commrel-support@wikimedia.org (not mailman).
We primarily just want an email-address redirect, so that anything that is sent to the old cep@lists.wikimedia.org instead comes to our new list. That's it!
If the archives here can be left as they are, that'd be great.
We don't need any other settings/subscribers changed.
Gotcha @Quiddity It woud be an easy request if you were asking for an alias from one mailman list to another. Since it is about redirecting from something @lists.wm.org to something not @lists.wm.org we can't use the normal "listserver_aliases" file for that and have to find a different way.
I ran this on the mailman server, nevertheless. that should just mean you don't get as much spam now.
/usr/local/sbin/disable_list cep cep disabled. Archives should be available at current location, all mail should be moderated and the list should not be on the listinfo page.
@herron Do you see an easy way to alias something @lists.wikimedia.org to something @wikimedia.org? I looked at the exim4 config on both fermium and mx1001 and the alias file structure, and since we don't have it configured to use domain names in the aliases file but only localparts i don't think it works. Unless we convert the entire alias file to always require domain names. I tried manually a test alias and didn't receive the mail. If i'm right and it's not easy then we can reject this ticket (already talked to Quiddity), but if i'm missing something and we can relatively easy do it anyways then it would be nice to have.
We talked about it briefly on IRC. It's possible but we'd rather not starting adding this type. Since you already said you can live without that part and the list is closed.. i'm calling it resolved nevertheless.
Thank you!
(Just a Community Relations internal thing: this task doesn't require evaluation.)