Enable visual editor on Dutch Wikipedia in User namespace and possibly Wikipedia namespace
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Description

At this point, visual editor is opt-in on Dutch Wikipedia, and consensus is unclear whether that will change. However, even when opted-in, it is not possible to use the visual editor on the user namespace, which is the namespace where drafts of articles are typically being produced by new editors. There seems consensus that it would be helpful to give the User namespace the same status as the main article namespace with regards to visual editor. See here for community discussion in the village pump: https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:De_kroeg&oldid=48719787#Visuele_bewerker

Would this be possible? Are there major drawbacks we may not have considered?

We also discussed the same for the Wikipedia namespace - but I can imagine more problems here (long & complicated discussion pages like the village pump and articles for deletion). Thoughts from the developers on this would be welcome for further discussion (drawbacks, possible solutions or workarounds such as opting out a number of pages from visual editor).

Restricted Application added a subscriber: Aklapper. · View Herald TranscriptMar 6 2017, 2:47 PM
DatGuy added a subscriber: DatGuy.Mar 6 2017, 4:58 PM

Judging by this line, user: namespace is defaulted to on. However, drafts have their own special variable. Currently enwiki, fawiki, hewiki, kowiki, ruwiki, and zhwiki have it on.

Jdforrester-WMF triaged this task as Normal priority.
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Yup, NS_USER already has VE on for users who have opted into VE – see e.g. my creation of https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gebruiker:Jdforrester_(WMF)/Kladblok – so I think this is already done, unless I'm missing something?

For NS_PROJECT, our advice is that VE isn't a great editing experience on pages that are signed (like village pumps or deletion discussions) and never will be, so we leave it to wikis' communities to decide. Several wikis have opted in, with good results, but I'm nervous.

Thanks @Jdforrester-WMF . Not sure why we thought it was not possible - probably a mixup somewhere. Sorry for the confusion.

If there an option to disable VE for a subset of the namespace? Any other workarounds you're aware of?

I think it would still be good to have visual editor also there especially because of new users, so I'd like to understand better what's not working, so we can discuss that at the community. Is there a good summary of that?

Stryn added a subscriber: Stryn.Mar 16 2017, 7:44 PM

Thanks @Jdforrester-WMF . Not sure why we thought it was not possible - probably a mixup somewhere. Sorry for the confusion.

No worries at all.

If there an option to disable VE for a subset of the namespace?

No. This code runs in a very high-profile part of the page load process, so we have to keep it as light-weight as possible (we don't want to slow down page loads for millions of readers just for benefit for thousands of editors). Adding code to make a decision based on more granularity (e.g. run a regex or do a DB look-up) would be way too expensive, sadly. :-(

Any other workarounds you're aware of?

One option, of which I'm not massively in favour but could work, would be if we were to switch the wiki into "Single Edit Tab" mode in always-wikitext mode (so the tab shown would always be "Edit"), and then have a default-on gadget that once the page had loaded re-wrote the target of the link to load VE in some circumstances. However, that'd be a massive hack, it'd be prone to breaking, it's not a supported configuration, and it might break things in some odd edge-cases (though I can't think of any off-hand).

I think it would still be good to have visual editor also there especially because of new users, so I'd like to understand better what's not working, so we can discuss that at the community. Is there a good summary of that?

To my understanding, the only reason that the visual editor is not enabled on the Dutch Wikipedia is at the request of the Dutch Wikipedia community. There are no technical barriers, though of course (as with all software) there are bugs, missing features, and areas we wish to improve. I don't think the Dutch community have a written-up explanation for why they – you! – do/do not want it, and what action is wanted (and from whom) to change that, if anything. Sorry. :-( I've created T161365: Enable VisualEditor by default for all users of the Dutch Wikipedia as a placeholder for hacking that discussion.

Jdforrester-WMF changed the task status from Open to Stalled.Mar 25 2017, 3:21 AM
Elitre added a subscriber: Elitre.Mar 27 2017, 2:12 PM