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Implement IIIF support on Wikimedia Commons in relation with Structured Data on Commons
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Description

Umbrella task to organize discussions around the International Image Interoperability Framework (IIIF) and (Structured Data on) Wikimedia Commons. Several individual and organisations have expressed interest in this.

Related task: T187873: Extension for interactive media based on IIIF Presentation API

Info about IIIF on Commons: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:International_Image_Interoperability_Framework

Document about Wikimedia-IIIF co-ordination: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lqtwd1rwUIck6nmetxtmQkzuTpgnwOSPREhH9YEjmHI/edit#heading=h.o1yxgti6jf6i

Event Timeline

Restricted Application added a project: Wikidata. · View Herald TranscriptAug 14 2017, 8:37 PM
Restricted Application added a subscriber: Aklapper. · View Herald Transcript
brion added a subscriber: brion.Aug 14 2017, 8:38 PM
brion added a comment.Aug 14 2017, 8:46 PM

@SandraF_WMF note I've been involved in the IIIF's A/V working group on extending the protocol to support audio and video, and have been at a few of the working group meetings for that. There's also a big IIIF working meeting in Toronto coming up in October; if there's serious interest I should probably pop in to that too, or else someone else from multimedia if there's interest in moving forward with stuff more directly.

SandraF_WMF moved this task from Backlog to Monitoring on the SDC General board.Aug 22 2017, 11:19 AM
SandraF_WMF lowered the priority of this task from Low to Lowest.Nov 7 2017, 8:11 AM

Changing priority to Lowest. This does not mean this is not important - it is definitely highly on the radar, but just not something I'll be working on at this specific moment / during this quarter. Feel free to ping me if there are questions or issues.

There's also a big IIIF working meeting in Toronto coming up in October; if there's serious interest I should probably pop in to that too, or else someone else from multimedia if there's interest in moving forward with stuff more directly.

There's definitely interest in making Commons interoperable with IIIF. @Ramsey-WMF are any of your peeps planning on going? Can you work with Brion to determine who should go? SDC could send a person, if we think it's useful. Maybe next year would be more useful, given our roadmap?

There's also a big IIIF working meeting in Toronto coming up in October; if there's serious interest I should probably pop in to that too, or else someone else from multimedia if there's interest in moving forward with stuff more directly.

There's definitely interest in making Commons interoperable with IIIF. @Ramsey-WMF are any of your peeps planning on going? Can you work with Brion to determine who should go? SDC could send a person, if we think it's useful. Maybe next year would be more useful, given our roadmap?

If there's another conference/working meeting scheduled next year, we can potentially have someone from Multimedia go depending on timing/workload.

Ainali added a subscriber: Ainali.Dec 18 2017, 8:58 AM

@Keegan, re T186197: Transition Community Liaison tasks to Keegan - I think it makes sense if I keep owning this task, as IIIF is very much a feature that is wanted by GLAMs. Let me know if you'd like to take over though!

Note there's some folks interested in IIIF/Wikimedia discussion from the IIIF end; some notes started recently on this doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lqtwd1rwUIck6nmetxtmQkzuTpgnwOSPREhH9YEjmHI/edit

@SandraF_WMF I added a few notes on that doc what I'm interested in from my end and what I cannot guarantee at this time given need to get resources to actually implement things. :) Feel free to get in touch.

SandraF_WMF renamed this task from IIIF and Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons discussion to Implement IIIF support on Wikimedia Commons in relation with Structured Data on Commons.May 31 2018, 11:46 AM
SandraF_WMF updated the task description. (Show Details)
SandraF_WMF raised the priority of this task from Lowest to Normal.May 31 2018, 11:48 AM

Changing priority to Normal - it is on the radar, and I and @Sadads are currently investing time in actively putting this on the agenda.

SandraF_WMF updated the task description. (Show Details)May 31 2018, 1:16 PM
Puik added a subscriber: Puik.Jun 12 2018, 11:59 AM
Jheald added a subscriber: Jheald.Jun 26 2018, 11:16 PM

A heads-up that "Wikipedia and IIIF" is the proposed subject for the IIIF community call this week -- see https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/iiif-discuss/wy2uRl_ukJ0

The IIIF community call is a one-hour conference call on Zoom (people can also dial in by telephone), that happens once every two weeks, with either a technical or a community focus -- see https://iiif.io/community/call/ .

This call will be in two days time, on Wednesday, the 15th of August, at mid-day Eastern time (ie 5pm London time, 6pm CET).

The scope will include all Wikimedia platforms (ie Commons, Wikidata, etc), and presentations can be included by prior arrangement. It might be good if someone from the structured data team could listen in, and perhaps present the team's thoughts for upcoming IIIF-compatible and accessible annotations (@SandraF_WMF ?)

Thanks for the heads-up, @Jheald - I can attend the meeting and have also alerted some colleagues to it!

At least one agenda item I'd like to put forward is: suggestions on how to let both communities communicate better (in a way that is not scattered, as is the case today, and so that the conversations can be found easily).

A heads-up that "Wikipedia and IIIF" is the proposed subject for the IIIF community call this week -- see https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/iiif-discuss/wy2uRl_ukJ0
The IIIF community call is a one-hour conference call on Zoom (people can also dial in by telephone), that happens once every two weeks, with either a technical or a community focus -- see https://iiif.io/community/call/ .
This call will be in two days time, on Wednesday, the 15th of August, at mid-day Eastern time (ie 5pm London time, 6pm CET).
The scope will include all Wikimedia platforms (ie Commons, Wikidata, etc), and presentations can be included by prior arrangement. It might be good if someone from the structured data team could listen in, and perhaps present the team's thoughts for upcoming IIIF-compatible and accessible annotations (@SandraF_WMF ?)

Thanks @SandraF_WMF . I've started putting together some links at :c:User:Jheald/IIIF_180815 that I or Andy Mabbett could talk through, to give an idea of what sort of IIIF interaction is possible at the moment.

Would it be possible for you to take up from that, and add a bit more detail re possibilities with structured data, and for perhaps creating IIIF-friendly manifests with annotations ?

Abit added a comment.Aug 14 2018, 2:14 PM

Would it be possible for you to take up from that, and add a bit more detail re possibilities with structured data, and for perhaps creating IIIF-friendly manifests with annotations ?

@brion is currently investigating if/how we could make Commons media compatible with the IIIF presentation layer, and will be sharing his work on this call as well.

SandraF_WMF added a subscriber: Pigsonthewing.EditedAug 16 2018, 12:03 PM

A heads-up that "Wikipedia and IIIF" is the proposed subject for the IIIF community call this week -- see https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/iiif-discuss/wy2uRl_ukJ0

The call took place yesterday, and it was attended by @Jheald, @Pigsonthewing, @brion and me representing the Wikimedia side.

Jheald gave a great overview of the current status and tooling around IIIF on our projects and Brion provided an update on current work. I talked briefly about the planning for SDC General, a request for use cases and argumentation why strong IIIF integration on Wikimedia projects would be valuable for the IIIF community, and a plea to streamline communications better.

We also had attendance and a presentation by @YULdigitalpreservation's colleague Kenneth Seals-Nutt on their Wikidata- and IIIF-powered project http://sciencestories.io/.

The full recording of the talk is available here: https://stanford.zoom.us/recording/play/nLCZcXBE1FeISFo4T6HftDHcPipS7MTE7VIpEJ5n44tLgbuIX6ZvHYNU4Cii6hAE?startTime=1534349352000
Agenda and notes here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_QGZjyYR38HfDtqgoJ-Tc5kIZXkqCETBbeWbzlCRzFk/edit

Some outcomes and bits of interesting/relevant info:

As I am working on a bit of on-wiki documentation anyway, I have taken the freedom to rearrange the page on Commons about IIIF a bit, to make it more digestable (I hope) to people new to IIIF and to non-Wikimedians.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:International_Image_Interoperability_Framework

Of course, feel free to modify anything!

Not sure if this is the right ticket for this information, but I'd like to note strong interest on two different occasions from two different people in the last month in a top-tier GLAM that I'm working with, about the possibility of being able to use Commons as an IIIF hosting service for high-resolution images, eg for serving tiles of old maps for geo-referencing to platforms that need to be able to access images from an IIIF service.

The GLAM is quite strapped for cash (or, at least, the relevant departments are), and they can get a much more affordable deal from the georeferencing platform if they can arrange their own image hosting, rather than having to copy all their images to the georeferencing company.

If we could offer this, that would significantly strengthen the business case within the GLAM for releasing best-quality high-resolution versions of their images to WikiCommons, rather than lower-resolution degraded versions -- a subject of significant current discussion and dispute within the organisation.

A couple of pre-requisites for this would be (i) the ability to offer a stable and fast IIIF service with strong reliability, and (ii) the ability to offer IIIF access to a particular revision of an image -- because any subsequent cropping or rotation or rescaling by a Commons user, however well-intentioned, would totally throw out the pixel-referenced georeferencing data.

BTW, I note that the current pilot service appears to be down again T206260, and has suffered from recurrent corruption problems T194956. I know that, myself, I have not been able to use zoom-viewer for any of the large old maps that I recently uploaded (example, example2), which doesn't help in showing off what I hope we would be able to offer.

Thanks James. It is extremely helpful and useful for us to know that this request has come up. In order to be able to make the case for core IIIF support in the future, we need plenty of evidence that this is a real need. It's telling that even a major GLAM in a country with relatively good cultural funding, like the UK (I assume?) expresses this request, and I would be interested to know about concrete cases from GLAMs in less-resourced countries.

Not sure if this is the right ticket for this information, but I'd like to note strong interest on two different occasions from two different people in the last month in a top-tier GLAM that I'm working with, about the possibility of being able to use Commons as an IIIF hosting service for high-resolution images, eg for serving tiles of old maps for geo-referencing to platforms that need to be able to access images from an IIIF service.
The GLAM is quite strapped for cash (or, at least, the relevant departments are), and they can get a much more affordable deal from the georeferencing platform if they can arrange their own image hosting, rather than having to copy all their images to the georeferencing company.
If we could offer this, that would significantly strengthen the business case within the GLAM for releasing best-quality high-resolution versions of their images to WikiCommons, rather than lower-resolution degraded versions -- a subject of significant current discussion and dispute within the organisation.
A couple of pre-requisites for this would be (i) the ability to offer a stable and fast IIIF service with strong reliability, and (ii) the ability to offer IIIF access to a particular revision of an image -- because any subsequent cropping or rotation or rescaling by a Commons user, however well-intentioned, would totally throw out the pixel-referenced georeferencing data.
BTW, I note that the current pilot service appears to be down again T206260, and has suffered from recurrent corruption problems T194956. I know that, myself, I have not been able to use zoom-viewer for any of the large old maps that I recently uploaded (example, example2), which doesn't help in showing off what I hope we would be able to offer.

(ii) the ability to offer IIIF access to a particular revision of an image -- because any subsequent cropping or rotation or rescaling by a Commons user, however well-intentioned, would totally throw out the pixel-referenced georeferencing data.

Agree. On Commons I've also seen way too many crops of the edges of historical or artistic photographs, and overwrites with very different images... we need the ability to (persistently) point to a specific revision of a file.

(ii) the ability to offer IIIF access to a particular revision of an image -- because any subsequent cropping or rotation or rescaling by a Commons user, however well-intentioned, would totally throw out the pixel-referenced georeferencing data.

Agree. On Commons I've also seen way too many crops of the edges of historical or artistic photographs, and overwrites with very different images... we need the ability to (persistently) point to a specific revision of a file.

This is the strongest argument yet for more cooperation with IIIF who have figured most of these things out, showing that our use of Commons annotations and Wikidata relative coordinates are quite behind the times.