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Have a way to export and update OOUI icons on Commons
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Description

Sometimes, I need to "quote" a certain icon to explain how to do something on an on-wiki feedback. Not having OOUI icons on Commons don't allow me to integrate them to conversations and in documentation. I only can upload the icons by myself and they will never be updated, or create a link, that requires an extra effort for users.

It is possible to coordinate a Git repro with Commons. Updated icons would be shared on Commons, which would update icons used on the wikis.

Event Timeline

Restricted Application added a subscriber: Aklapper. · View Herald TranscriptOct 27 2017, 10:08 AM

Commons already has most (all?) of the icons, listed at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/OOjs_UI_icons – although they're not necessarily kept updated.

It is possible to coordinate a Git repo with Commons. Updated icons would be shared on Commons, which would update icons used on the wikis.

Are you saying that there is some tool already that could do this, or that we should implement our own?

Volker_E renamed this task from Have a way to export and update OOui icons on Commons to Have a way to export and update OOUI icons on Commons.Oct 27 2017, 11:49 PM
Volker_E updated the task description. (Show Details)

Commons already has most (all?) of the icons, listed at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/OOjs_UI_icons – although they're not necessarily kept updated.

I wasn't aware of that page, thank you. That will help. The most important thing is to have a similar icon, if not the last one.

It is possible to coordinate a Git repo with Commons. Updated icons would be shared on Commons, which would update icons used on the wikis.

Are you saying that there is some tool already that could do this, or that we should implement our own?

I'm not familiar with Git and al. but I think i18n files are updated on translatewiki.net with a similar system (although they deal with strings, not images). So I would say "create one", which is certainly not a priority.

Volker_E triaged this task as Low priority.Mar 1 2018, 11:49 PM

Users strongly calling for such script at https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Technik/Text/Edit/VisualEditor/R%C3%BCckmeldungen#Icontausch?
In the discussion, there has been a pointer @Perhelion who already should have written a script for uploading the OOUI icons?!

Elitre added a subscriber: Elitre.Apr 26 2018, 3:25 PM

@Esanders I don't think that this is the same task. My task asks not just for the OOUI icons to be dumped somewhere on Commons, but specifically for a file structure which ensures that help pages always show the current UI icons. This can also be done manually.

@Esanders I don't think that this is the same task. My task asks not just for the OOUI icons to be dumped somewhere on Commons, but specifically for a file structure which ensures that help pages always show the current UI icons. This can also be done manually.

Which help pages? For VE we automatically generate localised screenshots of the interface.

Which help pages? For VE we automatically generate localised screenshots of the interface.

I do not have a complete list, but I will list you the changes that one of our most active help page volunteers made just to ensure that the signature button is correct in templates, help pages and question pages editnotices used to inform new editors about how to sign:

  1. https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vorlage:Diskussion&diff=prev&oldid=176882782&diffmode=source
  2. https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=176882720&oldid=161521119&title=Vorlage:Unterschreiben&diffmode=source
  3. https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=176882609&oldid=174070713&title=Vorlage:Benutzerdiskussionsseite&diffmode=source
  4. https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=176882554&oldid=167667895&title=Vorlage:Diskussionsseite&diffmode=source
  5. https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=176882136&oldid=169689034&title=Vorlage:Automatische_Unterschrift&diffmode=source
  6. https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=176882081&oldid=167895651&title=Vorlage:Begr%C3%BC%C3%9Fungsbox&diffmode=source
  7. https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=176881875&oldid=159779653&title=Wikipedia:Auskunft/Editnotice&diffmode=source
  8. https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=176881803&oldid=154813678&title=Wikipedia:Relevanzcheck/Editnotice&diffmode=source
  9. https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=176881768&oldid=172169996&title=Wikipedia:Tutorial/Diskussionsseite&diffmode=source
  10. https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=176881733&oldid=176874826&title=Hilfe:Signatur&diffmode=source
  11. https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=176881662&oldid=173098147&title=Hilfe:Diskussionsseiten&diffmode=source
  12. https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=176881550&oldid=161033354&title=Wikipedia:Fragen_von_Neulingen/Editnotice&diffmode=source
  13. https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=176881503&oldid=172147122&title=Wikipedia:Fragen_von_Neulingen/Intro&diffmode=source
  14. https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=176881175&oldid=147023670&title=Wikipedia:Fragen_zur_Wikipedia/Editnotice&diffmode=source
  15. https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=176880716&oldid=174879412&title=Hilfe:Symbolleisten&diffmode=source
  16. https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=176895024&oldid=137400852&title=Benutzerin:Knopfkind/Hallo&diffmode=source
  17. https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=176895208&oldid=79428482&title=Benutzer:Der_Buckesfelder/Vorlage:Hallo&diffmode=source
  18. https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=176895319&oldid=100356682&title=Benutzerin:NessaTelemmaite/Textbausteine/Begr%C3%BC%C3%9Fungsbox_IP&diffmode=source
  19. https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=176895435&oldid=169670807&title=Benutzer:Trustable/Vorlage:Willkommen&diffmode=source

You can see that they now sometimes used a template, which could be centrally changed, but I think it is obvious that what we need is two Commons categories, one for each of the editors, which under the very same file name always contain the most recent icons. This would also ensure that user information templates which were posted to user talk pages using subst (which is necessary to display a timestamp and signature) will always reflect the current state. Such a category would also allow chapters and others who are creating educational material to update their material more easily.

Elitre added a comment.May 2 2018, 9:30 AM

Users strongly calling for such script at https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Technik/Text/Edit/VisualEditor/R%C3%BCckmeldungen#Icontausch?
In the discussion, there has been a pointer @Perhelion who already should have written a script for uploading the OOUI icons?!

Do you need this script to move forward? Do you have all the files hosted somewhere (even just a Google Folder) that could be shared with someone else who takes care of the upload?

Elitre awarded a token.May 2 2018, 9:35 AM

@Esanders I don't think that this is the same task. My task asks not just for the OOUI icons to be dumped somewhere on Commons, but specifically for a file structure which ensures that help pages always show the current UI icons. This can also be done manually.

Which help pages? For VE we automatically generate localised screenshots of the interface.

(As a side note, this is https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Language_screenshots .)

I don't think we should be spending time writing scripts to support a system that is currently used by one wiki. We already have an automated multilingual screenshot bot that solves all these issues, and I would rather time was spent improving its coverage, benefitting every wiki.

Ultimately UI guides generated with subt'd text and images are going to go stale, as it's just as likely that labels or tool order will change.

Cirdan added a comment.EditedMay 2 2018, 2:17 PM

I don't think we should be spending time writing scripts to support a system that is currently used by one wiki. We already have an automated multilingual screenshot bot that solves all these issues, and I would rather time was spent improving its coverage, benefitting every wiki.

I do agree that rebuilding the UI as wiki templates doesn't have to be supported. However, the multilingual screenshots in no way solve the issue with the use of single icons in e.g. help templates, edit notices, help pages (e.g. the use of the trash can here) or creating educational material. This is done universally across language versions. I do not think it is an outlandish request to ask for the current UI icons to be available on Wikimedia Commons instead of being hidden in some Git repo. It is very likely that Commons currently has better coverage for some popular Linux icon sets than for MediaWiki itself.

I do not think it is an outlandish request to ask for the current UI icons to be available on Wikimedia Commons instead of being hidden in some Git repo.

They are. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/OOjs_UI_icons

Cirdan added a comment.EditedMay 4 2018, 9:13 AM

I do not think it is an outlandish request to ask for the current UI icons to be available on Wikimedia Commons instead of being hidden in some Git repo.

They are. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/OOjs_UI_icons

The emphasis is on current. This is why I opened T193116, which from my perspective is not a duplicate of this task.

It should not be a problem for your team to publish the current UI icon set to Commons in a way similar to what I described in that task. Then, all edit notices/newbie welcome templates/etc. which use single icons to teach editors (we are talking of hundreds to thousands of pages across all language versions just for "Click this button to sign your message") will always be current. It will also be easier for people such as myself who teach new editors to update their course material.

The alternative is to look through hundreds and hundreds of OOUI icons on Commons and to have no way of knowing whether the UI changed unless I stumble across it by accident. If you are of the opinion that the latter is acceptable and considering the effort required on your behalf vs. the effort everybody else has to make justifies keeping it this way, I will not push this issue further.

I imagine the volunteer who uploaded the first batch did it with a script, so that might be a good place to start?

For the most part the icon changes have been fairly minor and stylistic, so I don't see it as an urgent issue.

Cirdan added a comment.May 5 2018, 8:28 AM

For the most part the icon changes have been fairly minor and stylistic, so I don't see it as an urgent issue.

The change e.g. in the signature icon, which is one of the most used, was quite substantial and probably caused the most problems.

From my experience teaching software to somewhat inexperienced users I also know that even small differences between an icon in a text book/help page and the same icon in the UI can cause a lot of confusion. If one is already familiar with what the icon shows (e.g. "The letter F", "A pencil", "A quotation mark") stylistic changes are not a problem, but if one cannot yet distinguish between an abstract symbol and its representation, it can be quite difficult to spot an icon in a toolbar.

All the files on https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/OOjs_UI_icons were uploaded by one user. I assume they have a script.

@Cirdan I think the optimal solution for your use case would be a new tag, something like <mw-icon>signature</mw-icon>, which would display the signature icon (or any other). This icon would naturally always use the current image, same as all software running on the wiki. This was proposed nearly three years ago in T101666 and I have had a patch pending to implement this for a bit over two years now (https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/249453/). Perhaps you can convince someone that this is a good idea.

Elitre added a comment.May 8 2018, 3:59 PM

FWIW if the OOjs didn't have div tags inside, one could happily use the visual diffs to keep better track of updates made to it. (My colleague Sherry figured that that's the reason why the system isn't currently that useful there instead.)

Elitre added a comment.May 9 2018, 4:09 PM

All the files on https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/OOjs_UI_icons were uploaded by one user. I assume they have a script.

The one who helped with Maps isn't necessarily a highly technical contributor but could have definitely used an icons bundle.

Users strongly calling for such script at https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Technik/Text/Edit/VisualEditor/R%C3%BCckmeldungen#Icontausch?
In the discussion, there has been a pointer @Perhelion who already should have written a script for uploading the OOUI icons?!

I asked the user directly, dunno if the answer can be useful here.

Perhelion added a comment.EditedMay 21 2018, 11:00 AM

I asked the user directly, dunno if the answer can be useful here.

Hello everywhere, excuse me for my late contribution here, that I was a long time unannounced inactive.

I simply used for upload the Vicuna tool and (as I told Elitre for the gallery page) the file manager Total Commander to generate the list and a RegExp editor for completing the Wiki syntax.

It is indeed easier to make the first batch upload because I still don't know a batch upload method for overwriting existing files. (Although
I've had already some experience with cleaning up duplicates of the world's largest icon set before, the "Farm-Fresh Web Icons".)

So overall that should not help much here (as I don't used a script).

MartinK added a subscriber: MartinK.Jun 8 2018, 2:58 PM

I look, not only me concerned about this problem. It seems to me that it would be more convenient for everyone to have the icons update automatically by bot. I also think that It can be commissioned to:

  • create color copies of the icons: red, blue, green, white, orange(?)
  • update wrong/old description
  • add Structured Data
  • mark removed icons from OOui set
  • update https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/OOUI_icons page, when it adds or removes icons
  • add a description of the changes to the talk page (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/OOUI_icons page) to make it easier for designers to control them
  • add rtl icons (if the bot has the ability to detect symmetrical images) (debtable)

Just for example what we are having now:

@JJMC89 I'm sorry, can you clarify why you deleted this tag, please? :)

JJMC89 removed a subscriber: JJMC89.Jul 13 2019, 4:44 PM

@JJMC89 I'm sorry, can you clarify why you deleted this tag, please? :)

See the project's description. You are essentially requesting a bot, not dealing with a framework issue.

@JJMC89 I'm sorry, can you clarify why you deleted this tag, please? :)

See the project's description. You are essentially requesting a bot, not dealing with a framework issue.

Ok, thanks :)

JJMC89 removed a subscriber: JJMC89.Jul 13 2019, 4:48 PM

@Sophivorus Is it possible to combine this bot with the bot we discussed in T214199? It would be extremely useful.

The two ones in the lower row are no longer supported by OOui. They are not mentioned on gallery.

The pencil is only ltr direction now, see RTL collection compared to LTR.

I am not responsible that structure and appearance of OOui is changed every year, I am the poor guy who tracks the changes on Commons.

Iniquity added a comment.EditedAug 1 2019, 3:57 PM

The two ones in the lower row are no longer supported by OOui. They are not mentioned on gallery.
The pencil is only ltr direction now, see RTL collection compared to LTR.

Yes, I know :) In the first case, we need to add some description in the file name that the icon is out of date, and in the second case, we need to remove the direction indication.

You split the discussion on two Phab tasks, while it is actually an issue for the Commons talk page. Therefore I am forced to comment here once again.

It is a very very bad idea to change file names every time the OOjs management changes their mind what is currently belonging to the OOjs set. This will cause renaming bots changing hundreds of pages around the world. And when the decision goes back to previous state then pages around the world will be changed back.

The OOjs graphics is neither robust nor stable, they change design and structure very frequently. I have been bothered by major changes several times since 2017.

The files received their names since at the time of creation they have been official part of OOjs. Now this is part of their history. They might become part of the collection again next week, nobody knows.

Rather than demanding that other people shall do the work you might introduce a sub-category for icons which are not part of the collection in summer 2019, and update file description pages.

You split the discussion on two Phab tasks, while it is actually an issue for the Commons talk page. Therefore I am forced to comment here once again.

This is not a Commons problem, but a problem of supporting the current strandard design of Wikimedia projects. This task discusses bot updates from the repository, which is 100% necessary, as this will facilitate the work of developers. The problem of names and categories is discussed in the second task.

I am the guy who initiated in 2016 the porting of the icon collection, persuaded a script runner to create the first pile of 1000 icons, and I added manually several hundreds of changed and added icons. I also refactored the gallery.

The purpose is to make icons available to wiki project pages, like a Wikipedia help page. The collection at Commons is not necessary to run OOjs, and it has been entirely ignored by the WMF design department, and no one from WMF did any substantial help nor update to the Commons icon collection.

OOUI is not involved into the Commons files.

It is an internal Commons affair, has nothing to do with the OOjs software, and is a Commons business.

Phabricator is the wrong platform to organise internal Commons affairs.

Trizek-WMF added a comment.EditedAug 2 2019, 12:33 PM

Remember: the purpose of this task is to find a good way to have all up-to-date OOUI icons on Commons and identified as such.

From what I understand from the task and the discussions:

  • a repository should exist with svg icons that are in use
  • conventions about naming thinks should be stricter to avoid duplicates
  • ideally, a bot should upload the missing icons to Commons
  • icons in use should be categorized in an "in-use" category
  • icons not in use should be categorized in a "depreciated" category

I see both OOUI business and Commons business here. Let's find a path where we can work together on achieving our common goal.

matmarex removed a subscriber: matmarex.Aug 5 2019, 8:34 PM

From what I understand from the task and the discussions:

  • a repository should exist with svg icons that are in use

This is clearly already the case:
Both, OOUI (current master) and the Wikimedia Design Style Guide (Gerrit master copy from GitHub) repos feature the latest icons.