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Add monolingual language code nan-hani, cdo-hani, hak-hans, hak-hant
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Description

Please add the following language codes to the list of language codes supported for monolingual text values.

The language code: nan-Hani
Language name in the language itself or English: Min Nan (Hanji)
The used script, if not obvious: Hani
Where and when the language was or is used: Minnan-speaking area, modern era
The Wikidata item id: Q15901848

The language code: cdo-Hani
Language name in the language itself or English: Min Dong (Chinese characters)
The used script, if not obvious: Hani
Where and when the language was or is used: Min-Dong-speaking people. Modern era.
The Wikidata item id: Q5365165

The language code: hak-Hans
Language name in the language itself or English: Hakka (Chinese character, Simplified)
The used script, if not obvious: Hans
Where and when the language was or is used: mainland China, modern era
The Wikidata item id: Q22827960

The language code: hak-Hant
Language name in the language itself or English: Hakka (Chinese character, Traditional)
The used script, if not obvious: Hant
Where and when the language was or is used: Taiwan, Hong Kong, etc., modern era
The Wikidata item id: Q18165189

Usage example: Use for wikidata items like Q865

Event Timeline

C933103 created this task.Nov 17 2017, 4:46 AM
Restricted Application added a subscriber: Aklapper. · View Herald TranscriptNov 17 2017, 4:46 AM
C933103 renamed this task from Add monolingual language code nan-hant-tw, nan-hans-cn, cdo-hans-cn, cdo-hant-tw, hak-hans-cn, hak-hant-tw, zh-nshu, ja-hant to Add monolingual language code nan-hant-tw, nan-hans-cn, cdo-hans, cdo-hant, hak-hans, hak-hant, zh-nshu, ja-hant.EditedNov 23 2017, 5:39 PM
C933103 updated the task description. (Show Details)
C933103 updated the task description. (Show Details)
C933103 renamed this task from Add monolingual language code nan-hant-tw, nan-hans-cn, cdo-hans, cdo-hant, hak-hans, hak-hant, zh-nshu, ja-hant to Add monolingual language code nan-hant-tw, nan-hans-cn, cdo-hani, hak-hans, hak-hant, zh-nshu, ja-hant.Nov 23 2017, 5:46 PM
C933103 updated the task description. (Show Details)

Why requesting separated BCP47 codes for Min nan? Why don't we just split the TWN Min nan translations instead (so we can also make Min nan labels separated).

Why requesting separated BCP47 codes for Min nan? Why don't we just split the TWN Min nan translations instead (so we can also make Min nan labels separated).

TWN min nan? as in nan-TW? According to my understanding, there are also POJ users in Taiwan and Hani users in mainland China so that doesn't seem to solve the situation entirely, although my understanding is not necessarily complete.

Liuxinyu970226 added a comment.EditedNov 26 2017, 10:55 AM

@C933103:

TWN min nan? as in nan-TW? According to my understanding, there are also POJ users in Taiwan and Hani users in mainland China so that doesn't seem to solve the situation entirely, although my understanding is not necessarily complete.

You can see why I'm disencouraging "nan-Hant-TW" and "nan-Hans-CN" at T165882#3483545 (certainly, they the Min nan users should concern about their scripts used in interface first, not only requesting a lot of really unnecessary monolingual codes which are also locally defineable)

Almost all the Hani text being discussed and used related to the nan.wp project now are Hant. Disregarding Hans for now and use Hani instead of Hant would probably do the job in the current setting but what about when mainland China Hans users start visiting and editing the site?

Liuxinyu970226 added a comment.EditedNov 26 2017, 11:34 PM

Almost all the Hani text being discussed and used related to the nan.wp project now are Hant. Disregarding Hans for now and use Hani instead of Hant would probably do the job in the current setting but what about when mainland China Hans users start visiting and editing the site?

I don't think Hans should be considered in any kinds of Min, as some examples, the "只" and "隻"; "嬭" and "奶"; "发" and "發", … which are two-two having same means in Mandarin, are having totally different means in Min, thus the Hans create a number of ambiguous in Min.

C933103 renamed this task from Add monolingual language code nan-hant-tw, nan-hans-cn, cdo-hani, hak-hans, hak-hant, zh-nshu, ja-hant to Add monolingual language code nan-hani, cdo-hani, hak-hans, hak-hant, zh-nshu, ja-hant.Nov 27 2017, 5:41 PM
C933103 updated the task description. (Show Details)

hum edited task description accordingly

Yejianfei added a subscriber: Yejianfei.EditedDec 6 2017, 9:07 AM

Yep, pure "hans" script is a Mandarin-optimized script, and it never works on Min languages, because of too many ambiguities. Actually, the best practice is to use a mixture of "regional characters" and "hant". Therefore, "hani" is usually approved.

Moreover, if you really want to use "hans" as the main script, some "hant" characters are still required to reduce ambiguities, so it is still "hani".

Restricted Application added a subscriber: TerraCodes. · View Herald TranscriptDec 6 2017, 11:04 PM
ztl8702 added a subscriber: ztl8702.Dec 7 2017, 4:22 PM
C933103 updated the task description. (Show Details)Dec 9 2017, 12:17 AM
C933103 updated the task description. (Show Details)Dec 9 2017, 12:20 AM
C933103 renamed this task from Add monolingual language code nan-hani, cdo-hani, hak-hans, hak-hant, zh-nshu, ja-hant to Add monolingual language code nan-hani, cdo-hani, hak-hans, hak-hant, ja-hant.Dec 10 2017, 8:49 PM
C933103 updated the task description. (Show Details)

Remove Nushu as use case related to the language and script can be covered by using monolingual code mis due to the lack of language code for Tuhua

C933103 renamed this task from Add monolingual language code nan-hani, cdo-hani, hak-hans, hak-hant, ja-hant to Add monolingual language code nan-hani, cdo-hani, hak-hans, hak-hant.Dec 11 2017, 3:03 AM
C933103 updated the task description. (Show Details)

Remove Japanese Kyujitai request as might be using variant subtag instead of script subtag could be a better idea? Although there are also problems in using variant subtag

@GerardM what's your consideration on this request?

Actually my original ticket could be a little clearer...
Like clarifying that the "example" there was meant to mean there are articles in cdo/nan/hak wikipedia that are written in alternative script and thus there should be related monolingual code that would allow recording of those article names in wikidata language field.
Thus I would like to bump the request for monolingual language code cdo-hani and nan-hani.
And then for hak... Can someone verify that "Hakka (Traditional Han script)" and "Hakka (Simplified Han Script)" are proper way to describe how Hakka speakers would write their language in Han scripts?

@jhsoby Do you want to do on this? I ask because I saw to you working on these task usually.

在T180771#4544573中,@C933103写道:

And then for hak... Can someone verify that "Hakka (Traditional Han script)" and "Hakka (Simplified Han Script)" are proper way to describe how Hakka speakers would write their language in Han scripts?

Of course it is one of the correct way to write this language. Ministry of Education, ROC awards Literary Award of Taiwanese and Hakka (教育部閩客語文學獎, their website is https://www.edu.tw) every year. You can see hak-hant here.

Ab6399 claimed this task.Dec 7 2019, 5:41 PM
Ab6399 added a subscriber: Ab6399.

I will work on this issue

Change 555688 had a related patch set uploaded (by Ab6399; owner: Ab6399):
[mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase@master] Add several monolingual languages

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/555688

Does langcom approve this? I couldn't find any clear approval so far.

I started a discussion in the Langcom about this.

在T180771#4544573中,@C933103写道:

And then for hak... Can someone verify that "Hakka (Traditional Han script)" and "Hakka (Simplified Han Script)" are proper way to describe how Hakka speakers would write their language in Han scripts?

Of course it is one of the correct way to write this language. Ministry of Education, ROC awards Literary Award of Taiwanese and Hakka (教育部閩客語文學獎, their website is https://www.edu.tw) every year. You can see hak-hant here.

Hello, my question was NOT about whether it can be written in Chinese script (which I know it can), instead my question was that, whether there are meaningful differences between "Hakka with Simplified characters" and "Hakka with Traditional characters", as some previously mentioned that in certain other Chinese languages, characters that are currently used by the Simplified script have other function in the written version of that language, making it almost impossible to write the language using Simplified script and thus there are no need to distinguish Simplified - Traditional Chinese for that language. What I would like to know is whether Hakka also fit this situation being described.

I'm not hearing any objections from the Language Committee, so I'm probably going to start adding these codes.

Let's start with nan-hani. What will be the autonym for it?