(Question, not handling as the new site seems to be WMF-Communications "turf") Is the code of this new site maintained through some repo at Gerrit where we can send patches or is it managed differently? Thanks.

@MarcoAurelio - good question. :) The content (such as contact links mentioned here, other text, images, and translations) is maintained through the CMS database. The site is externally hosted and so the master code repository resides on the host's servers. More information on a mirror repo being setup is available on this ticket: T201572

@Varnent Thank you for your reply, it's helpful. Regards.

Every staff and contractor with an email address and public Wikimedia user account (which is nearly all of them, except for a couple interns) have theirs listed on the new website. We are not customizing the pages or contact info on a per-person basis (with the exception of Leadership team who have their bios added for press use).

It is true that the main contact page does not have individual's addresses. However, those are not comparable to contact information for a specific individual. Generally people reaching out about donations (or other topics listed) are not concerned with who responds, and who that person is may change over time. Additionally, there is rarely just one point person for the topics listed on that page.

I hope that helps clear things up. :)

@Varnent: Makes sense to not customize on a per-person basis. As people generally are not concerned who responds and as persons change over time, does that mean you're going to remove personal email addresses on everybody's profile page, as people are expected to contact groups and teams instead of individuals?

In T202188#4516736, @Aklapper wrote:

@Varnent: Makes sense to not customize on a per-person basis. As people generally are not concerned who responds and as persons change over time, does that mean you're going to remove personal email addresses on everybody's profile page, as people are expected to contact groups and teams instead of individuals?

@Aklapper I was speaking to people not being concerned when they email items listed on the contact page. If people are trying to reach me, they expect to reach me and not my team's email. If they are trying to reach Communications department in general (instead of me specifically) they should contact the team (which if they email me directly is where I will send them anyway - especially until team pages are more built out and that info is more setup across teams). So no, there is no plan to remove work email addresses from the profile pages.

Looking at the profiles, I don't see why the email is needed.

Currently, they have:

<Name>
<Title>               Email  Profile_on_meta-wiki

BIG PHOTO

However, the email is hardly a feature, since people is unlikely to need the email. The only use case I can think of for needing the email from that page would be as a way to provide feedback/reply to a blog entry written by the user with that profile.

I would remove the Email link and rename "PROFILE ON META-WIKI" to just "Profile". It's clearer and the "on meta-wiki" part doesn't really add anything (most people won't know what is meta-wiki, and for those that know, it is obvious where the page is).

So it would just be

<Name>
<Title>                    Profile

BIG PHOTO

Those that really needed it, can click on Profile and get the email address from there (it's an extra click). I find those more balanced, with sections 'About me', 'My work', and yes, a 'Contact me' column, too.

(This also has the tangential benefit that not listing the email addresses also there, means it won't be a place from which to scrap them to subscribe into spam lists, but the main point is, there is little need in general for that link to be there)

In T202188#4516803, @Varnent wrote:

If people are trying to reach me, they expect to reach me and not my team's email.

Sounds like the amount of people contacting you while they should instead contact your team or a better suited support channel seems to be lower than in my case.

which if they email me directly is where I will send them anyway

That perfectly describes the time and donors money that I'd like to save (redirecting people to better places) as I'm after impact and solutions that scale.

I was speaking to people not being concerned when they email items listed on the contact page.

I'm not concerned if people email me directly - that's why I have my email address already on my meta profile, with an explanation when to not email me personally.

In T202188#4516870, @Platonides wrote:

I would remove the Email link and rename "PROFILE ON META-WIKI" to just "Profile". It's clearer and the "on meta-wiki" part doesn't really add anything (most people won't know what is meta-wiki, and for those that know, it is obvious where the page is).

The "on Meta-Wiki" (as discussed in another ticket: T202178) was intentional word selection as we want to both alert them to the location change and welcome them into the Wikimedia world.

In T202188#4516899, @Aklapper wrote:

which if they email me directly is where I will send them anyway

That perfectly describes the time and donors money that I'd like to save (redirecting people to better places) as I'm after impact and solutions that scale.

Over time, hopefully this will improve across teams. However, right now the experience is too different between teams (not all have team addresses for example) to be a good end-user experience. Long-term, these are things I am hoping the On-wiki documentation working group can help us improve. So, the site is setup for the reality we have today, and we can evolve it as that reality changes.

As a result, there are no plans at this time to change the contact info on profiles. However, when there is a discussion in the future about the profiles (as I imagine there will be at some point) - I will be sure to pass these notes along.

I too would prefer my work address not to be listed on the website.

I find it very difficult to imagine a plausible scenario in which there is a positive outcome from a person viewing the staff page and deciding to contact me through that address. The only appropriate use of that address is for colleagues (whom should discover it internally) or for individuals I have chosen to give the address in question.

What use case are we hoping to address by this feature, and How is this part of a healthy and well-functioning system for users to get in touch with the appropriate people to help them with their enquiries? If they are interested in learning about a particular product or team, there are other more appropriate methods of contact we should steer them toward.

There is no information about me on this page that would, by itself, allow a viewer to conclude I am the appropriate person to e-mail. As such, this can only go wrong. There is also no information here about my team or the software I work on, either (perhaps there should be? The old site linked department and teams to a public and informative page about the teams activities with the preferred ways to reach out for specified purposes).

Please remove my email address from the website.

Thank you for the feedback, and we agree that there are many different ways these could be utilized. Right now, we believe it is too soon to really know for certain what will work and what will not work. We have begun working with Audiences on user testing, and will bring these issues up during testing. For now, we are going to leave them in place as there have not been any actual reported problems - so acting without more data based on possibilities is less ideal than responding to data. So, we are instead going to collect more data from target audiences and determine if these should remain or not. However, if they remain, we will be keeping them up for all staff with emails as it would not be effective use of time or a good end-user experience for there to be multiple custom profile setups. Please let us know if you do run into an issue because of your email being listed there.

You know a lot of WMF staff emails are already known to be leaked on various spam list (see https://haveibeenpwned.com/ especially for staff who have been around longer)

While, for a lot of the developers, their emails are basically already public through git commits... Listing emails makes crawling them very easy, even if they are easy "guessed" by the email address pattern

we are instead going to collect more data from target audiences and determine if these should remain or not.

@Varnent: Thanks for invetigating. What's the time frame for that and when do you expect the user testing with Audiences to be finished, analyzed, and published?

FYI, in other email threads people are now wondering how spammers got direct email addresses of Katherine and Victoria (and others).

In T202188#4585584, @Aklapper wrote:

we are instead going to collect more data from target audiences and determine if these should remain or not.

@Varnent: Thanks for invetigating. What's the time frame for that and when do you expect the user testing with Audiences to be finished, analyzed, and published?

No reply for the last three months. Wildly guessing this relates to

• "Research and design recommendation on Wikimedia Foundation Website" for "Audiences Design" on mw:Wikimedia_Audiences/2018-19_Q2_Goals#Design
• "Improve WikimediaFoundation official website" for "Audiences Design" on mw:Wikimedia_Audiences/2018-19_Q3_Goals#Design

Please correct if I'm wrong.

@Varnent: As the aforementioned quarters are past now, what has been the outcome of the user testing with regard to this issue?

@Aklapper - there are no changes planned at this time. In the distant future, we will review the overall setup for the staff listing page, and while that may impact parts of this, it will be more to deal with the growing size of the organization.

@Varnent: Thanks for the quick answer. Where were the data from target audiences / results of user testing published, as I'm curious to take a look at the details of what you found out?

@Aklapper - I am not aware of plans by Design to release the data. However, I should be clear that the type of data we are seeking would be on overall engagement with these pages, and not an email address specific question (sorry for not being clearer before). The data from discovery indicated access to this information was desirable, and indeed some people internally and externally specifically mentioned email addresses. What we are collecting info on now is how people use the site and seek information. As I mentioned, we will be looking more into these pages in the future - which will be a more involved undertaking and process than reviewing just the one method of contact. :)

I should note that I have talked with folks in Office IT - and there is no data or reports of increased SPAM activity since the new site went up. The examples provided (Katherine and Victoria) had their email addresses posted publicly long before this site went up (true for many others on staff as well - myself included). That does not mean we are not considering changes, but our reasons would be to enhance the end-user experience and not to resolve a SPAM issue.

I too would prefer to see my email removed. I have a hunch that LTAs are using that page to easily harvest staff emails to spam. Obviously people can figure out the straightforward pattern used for our emails, but this is a little too easy.

At the very least I'd like to provide a custom email for this page to see if people are legitimately using it or whether it's just food for spammers.

@Varnent: Three years later, when exactly will this get re-evaluated, as I continue to receive spam very likely coming from this very source?

@Varnent: Could you please answer the last comment? Thanks in advance!

@Aklapper - It has been under evaluation for some time - although for safety and security reasons unrelated to this specific issue.

@Varnent: Thanks for the reply. Who is evaluating and after which time frame could expect an answer or statement here?

@Varnent: Are there any updates two and a have years later?

Asking as English staff profile content silently disappeared, with no communication that I'm aware of.
While all other language content continues to exist, listing coworkers who left WMF many years ago.

@Aklapper, I am aware of what the various departments have been doing to get things ready - but no longer lead on the website aspect. @SCampos-WMF is now manager of the org website and can speak more directly to that team's role in this process.

@Varnent, thank you for including me.

@Aklapper, I appreciate your question. We are updating the staff listing page on the wikimediafoundation.org website as part of the Wikimedia Foundation Meta-Wiki presence project, as referenced here and in this task.

Due to privacy requirements and the administrative burden of maintaining accurate information for nearly 700 people, we will instead be focusing on a smaller selection of staff that will be presented on our Foundation website—those whom external audiences may need to connect with. This is why only a subset of staff members from each department is visible in the page (please note that some teams’ content, like People and Advancement, is still in progress, and we’ll share an update as this work is completed). As part of this approach, it has also been decided that no work email address will be listed in the profiles. You’ll notice that your profile and email information are not listed on that page, which should help prevent potential spam.

Thank you for highlighting the issue with profiles displaying in other languages. We addressed this bug in our recent October sprint, and it has been fixed since.