Switch new user welcome message to manually hidden talk page box
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Description

Author: equazcion

Description:
Currently, newly registered users are shown Wikipedia's welcome message (MediaWiki:Welcomecreation), including general rules, only once. When the user navigates away, the message is lost. Based on the discussion at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)MediaWiki-General-or-Unknown:Welcomecreation_-.3E_Welcome_notice, there is consensus that this functionality should be changed, as currently the welcome message likely goes unnoticed by most users, since it so easy to inadvertently remove it from view permanently.

The message should instead become a box that appears when the user views their talk page; It should NOT, however, be an actual talk page posting; ie. the welcome message should not actually cause creation of the talk page, and links to the new user's talk page should remain red. The message should be dynamically hideable via a "dismiss this message" link. The message should be placed either below the talk page's main header (its title), or in the sitenotice location; whichever seems more technically and aesthetically feasible.

Some technical changes the proposer foresaw in the discussion are as follows:
a) turn off MediaWiki:Welcomecreation
b) create MediaWiki:Welcomecreation2 as the new welcome message, to be shown to new users at the top of their user talk page until they dismiss the message
c) turn MediaWiki:Welcomecreation2 on

Thanks! Please post any questions if further clarification is required.


Version: unspecified
Severity: enhancement

bzimport added a subscriber: wikibugs-l.
bzimport set Reference to bz21318.
bzimport created this task.Via LegacyOct 27 2009, 10:40 PM
bzimport added a comment.Via ConduitOct 27 2009, 10:58 PM

rd232 wrote:

Backward compatibility is envisaged, hence the addition of variables allowing individual software installations to choose whether to show the old message or the new one.

bzimport added a comment.Via ConduitOct 27 2009, 11:02 PM

equazcion wrote:

(In reply to comment #1)

Backward compatibility is envisaged, hence the addition of variables allowing
individual software installations to choose whether to show the old message or
the new one.

I posted this as a Wikimedia bug rather than MediaWiki, but feel free to switch that if appropriate.

bzimport added a comment.Via ConduitOct 27 2009, 11:03 PM

rd232 wrote:

Also, in case it wasn't clear, the new "MediaWiki:Welcomecreation2" would be
shown at the top of the user talk page until dismissed; and if the appropriate
variable is set, users will be taken to their user talk page after account
creation, hence seeing that message, instead of being shown
"MediaWiki:Welcomecreation".

Nemo_bis added a comment.Via ConduitApr 25 2011, 10:34 AM

I disagree with this request.
We shouldn't mix up temporary (system) messages and permanent (talk) messages. If you want a user talk message, just add a user talk message as everybody does (and English Wikipedia does not for unknown reasons). There's even the NewUserMessage extension for that.

bzimport added a comment.Via ConduitMay 1 2011, 9:57 PM

rd232 wrote:

@Nemo_bis

English Wikipedia doesn't do it because people want to preserve the ability to easily identify new accounts by virtue of them having redlinked user and/or user talk pages.

As for the "mixing" - there is no mixing, because the point is precisely that it should not create a talk page if one does not exist, or to add it if it does.

Nemo_bis added a comment.Via ConduitMay 2 2011, 8:07 AM

(In reply to comment #5)

As for the "mixing" - there is no mixing, because the point is precisely that
it should not create a talk page if one does not exist, or to add it if it
does.

This is not the purpose of system messages and it wouldn't work properly (can you name a single message used in that way?).

bzimport added a comment.Via ConduitMay 8 2011, 9:04 PM

rd232 wrote:

At this point you understand what is being asked and why. How would you suggest it be achieved? (And how can you can claim "it wouldn't work properly" without explaining why?)

Krinkle added a comment.Via ConduitMay 8 2011, 9:18 PM

I think the idea presented here is great.

Although I may be interpretating it differently then intended.

Two facts:

  • When users have a new talk page message, they see (orange) <div class="usermessage"/> message. Once visited/read it dissapears
  • When there's a new sitenotice, logged-in users can dismiss it after reading

My version of the presented en.wiki idea in this bug, in addition to the above two facts:

  • When a user registers there's a welcome-notice with information new users should know (ie. "MediaWiki:Welcomecreation2"[1]). This is dismissable and won't be shown anymore after dismissed[2].

Krinkle

[1] MediaWiki:Welcomecreation2 isn't an acceptable message-key though, it would have to be something more descriptive and less temporary. Something like "newuser-welcomenotice" or "userregisterednotice", or plain "Welcomenotice" etc.
[2] I don't think the Dismissable-sitenotice-extension's javascript and the core sitenotice script are usable for this, since that would mean sending the welcome-notice html for everybody until the end of time, and hiding it via JavaScript based on a cookie. Instead this should probably be the other way around, based on a cookie, send it, otherwise don't (cookie could be send when signing up. So when registration is succesfull, set cookie and redirect to whereever. )

bzimport added a comment.Via ConduitMay 8 2011, 9:20 PM

equazcion wrote:

(In reply to comment #7)

At this point you understand what is being asked and why. How would you suggest
it be achieved? (And how can you can claim "it wouldn't work properly" without
explaining why?)

Echoing RD232's sentiments above. To reiterate, the goal is a dynamically dismissible message for new users that doesn't actually post data to any of their pages, and reappears whenever the user navigates to their user space until dismissed.

If a system message isn't feasible for this, kindly detail why and offer your opinion on how best to achieve it. Thanks.

Nemo_bis added a comment.Via ConduitMay 9 2011, 7:11 AM

(In reply to comment #9)

If a system message isn't feasible for this, kindly detail why and offer your
opinion on how best to achieve it. Thanks.

See comment 4.

Krinkle's suggestion of a "welcome sitenotice" is interesting, although it seems a bit obtrusive (unless you keep it very short) and it wouldn't replace user talk welcome messages.
Moreover, we would need to investigate how many users don't understand how to dismiss the sitenotice and live with it although very annoyed (I guess they're a lot), or some automatic expiration would be needed.

Bawolff added a comment.Via ConduitMay 9 2011, 7:31 AM

You know, if we had some equivalent to lqt's special:newmessages in core, this would fit perfectly into that model.

Some of the comments on r66438 about sending system->user messages come to mind (that of course is a totally separate issue, but this bug report reminded me of that discussion)

(Also, while I'm here I'd like to say in regards to the original request, a big +1 to comment 4)

Deskana added a comment.Via ConduitApr 29 2014, 2:40 PM

The Growth team is designing and implementing a proper onboarding process for our users. Hopefully they should be able to accomplish the intent of this bug (i.e. "onboard our new users properly") without us having to give users persistent messages.

Any questions about onboarding can be directed to Steven Walling (swalling@wikimedia.org).

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