Perhaps DiscussionTools have something for us?

In T244651#5862527, @matej_suchanek wrote:

Perhaps DiscussionTools have something for us?

Looks good. For anyone who wants to try it out: https://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Talk:Main_Page?dtenable=1

@ppelberg -- here is a use cases for replying that comes from our Czech community members. They get mentorship questions on their talk pages from the newcomer homepage's mentorship module, and the two issues are:

• Mentors sometimes forget to ping the newcomer.
• Newcomers frequently don't understand how to reply to the mentor's response.

Hopefully these can help inform your work on the reply button and beyond. Czech mentors who are subscribed to this task (@Patriccck and @Vojtech.Vesely) may have time to answer follow-up questions or try out prototypes.

@MMiller_WMF Yes, of course, I can answer follow-up questions try out prototypes :-).

First off, it's great to see you advancing the idea of a simplified workflow for replying to comments on talk pages, @Urbanecm.

A question about this screenshot [1]...what led you to placing the "Reply to mentor" and "Reply to mentee" buttons above the comment?

...I ask because our current approach [2] has the Reply link after each comment's signature and I wonder if you have uncovered something that we haven't.

1. Screenshot:
   
2. Current approach: https://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Cats

In T244651#5873068, @MMiller_WMF wrote:

Mentors sometimes forget to ping the newcomer.

Thank you for the ping, @MMiller_WMF. These replying use cases, and the difficulties people encounter with them, are helpful to hear.

The above is especially relevant as we experiment with populating the reply text input with the username of the person you are responding to. See: T245227

@Patriccck + @Vojtech.Vesely, a question for you both related to this: What do you think when other people mention you in conversations on-wiki?

...I ask this question because we are wondering whether automatically including a link the to the user page of the person you are replying to might create more disruption [1] than value [2].

cc @iamjessklein

1. Disruption: As a result of user page links being included in replies automatically, there is a potential experienced contributors find the notifications they trigger to be more disruptive than they are helpful.
2. Value: As someone reading the talk page, it is easier to know who is respond to who and 2) As someone involved in a conversation, it's helpful to know when someone is addressing you directly.

...Czech mentors who are subscribed to this task (@Patriccck and @Vojtech.Vesely) may have time to answer follow-up questions or try out prototypes.

Awesome. @Patriccck and @Vojtech.Vesely, two things related to trying out the prototype for replying to comments:

1. Do you think any of the mentees you work with would be open to trying the prototype and sharing what they think about the experience? While we've had a good number of experienced contributors try it out, it would be helpful to hear what newer contributors think of the feature as it's currently implemented.
   • If you think of someone, this link has all the information they would need to try out the prototype: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk_pages_project/replying/prototype_testing#Version_1.0_prototype_test

2. And of course, if you have the time to try the prototype, we would value hearing what your experience with it is like. You can find a link to the prototype here: https://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Talk:Dogs

In T244651#5883958, @ppelberg wrote:

First off, it's great to see you advancing the idea of a simplified workflow for replying to comments on talk pages, @Urbanecm.

A question about this screenshot [1]...what led you to placing the "Reply to mentor" and "Reply to mentee" buttons above the comment?

It was pure simplicity - it was easy to put a button there, easier than put a reply link after a signature.

I ask because our current approach [2] has the Reply link after each comment's signature and I wonder if you have uncovered something that we haven't.

---

1. Screenshot:
   
2. Current approach: https://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Cats

In T244651#5883960, @ppelberg wrote:

[...]
@Patriccck + @Vojtech.Vesely, a question for you both related to this: What do you think when other people mention you in conversations on-wiki?

I wasn't asked, but since in my volunteer capacity I'm also an active wiki-user, I believe I can provide my point of view as well.

There are some users who tend to ping others with each of their reply, so the other person notices even they don't have the discussion in their watchlist. There are also some other users who tell the pinging users they do have the talk page in their watchlist, and that the ping causes unnecessary notification. If you want to avoid seeing reactions like "the WMF wasted money on totally unnecessary software once again", I recommend allowing users to customize if they should be pinged, with the default of "ping me" (possibly only for users registered from now on).

I ask this question because we are wondering whether automatically including a link the to the user page of the person you are replying to might create more disruption [1] than value [2].

cc @iamjessklein

---

1. Disruption: As a result of user page links being included in replies automatically, there is a potential experienced contributors find the notifications they trigger to be more disruptive than they are helpful.
2. Value: As someone reading the talk page, it is easier to know who is respond to who and 2) As someone involved in a conversation, it's helpful to know when someone is addressing you directly.

In T244651#5884126, @Urbanecm wrote:

In T244651#5883958, @ppelberg wrote:

A question about this screenshot [1]...what led you to placing the "Reply to mentor" and "Reply to mentee" buttons above the comment?

It was pure simplicity - it was easy to put a button there, easier than put a reply link after a signature.

Oh, okay...understood.

In T244651#5883960, @ppelberg wrote:

[...]
@Patriccck + @Vojtech.Vesely, a question for you both related to this: What do you think when other people mention you in conversations on-wiki?

There are some users who tend to ping others with each of their reply, so the other person notices even they don't have the discussion in their watchlist. There are also some other users who tell the pinging users they do have the talk page in their watchlist, and that the ping causes unnecessary notification. If you want to avoid seeing reactions like "the WMF wasted money on totally unnecessary software once again", I recommend allowing users to customize if they should be pinged, with the default of "ping me" (possibly only for users registered from now on).

Making it so contributors can control/customize the notifications they receive is a good approach. Good thought, Martin.

And what about for your specifically...do you relate more to the people who watchlist talk pages and finds pings to cause unnecessary notifications? Or do you more closely relate to the people who who don't watchlist talk pages and instead, find pings to be helpful?

...and by the way, I'm glad you shared your point of view, @Urbanecm! ...in mentioning Patrik and Vojtěch I didn't realize I might be suggesting we wouldn't value your input as well.

In T244651#5891597, @ppelberg wrote:

In T244651#5884126, @Urbanecm wrote:

In T244651#5883958, @ppelberg wrote:

A question about this screenshot [1]...what led you to placing the "Reply to mentor" and "Reply to mentee" buttons above the comment?

It was pure simplicity - it was easy to put a button there, easier than put a reply link after a signature.

Oh, okay...understood.

In T244651#5883960, @ppelberg wrote:

[...]
@Patriccck + @Vojtech.Vesely, a question for you both related to this: What do you think when other people mention you in conversations on-wiki?

There are some users who tend to ping others with each of their reply, so the other person notices even they don't have the discussion in their watchlist. There are also some other users who tell the pinging users they do have the talk page in their watchlist, and that the ping causes unnecessary notification. If you want to avoid seeing reactions like "the WMF wasted money on totally unnecessary software once again", I recommend allowing users to customize if they should be pinged, with the default of "ping me" (possibly only for users registered from now on).

Making it so contributors can control/customize the notifications they receive is a good approach. Good thought, Martin.

And what about for your specifically...do you relate more to the people who watchlist talk pages and finds pings to cause unnecessary notifications? Or do you more closely relate to the people who who don't watchlist talk pages and instead, find pings to be helpful?

I don't really mind either approach. I do watchlist talk pages, but if someone pings me anyway, I don't feel offended or anything. It mostly causes quicker reaction, as I keep zero unread notifications, and if something's red there, I almost immediately check, if I'm currently wiki-working.

---

...and by the way, I'm glad you shared your point of view, @Urbanecm! ...in mentioning Patrik and Vojtěch I didn't realize I might be suggesting we wouldn't value your input as well.

Happy to help!

@Patriccck asked me to translate his thoughts. Here it is!

I personally think mentioning is an useful feature, but I understand some people don't like. For me, it's always better if someone mentions me, because that's more visible than just the watchlist. I can easily overlook a watchlist entry. There also are some users who don't even have a watchlist.
I like the current approach of your team.

Hope that helps!

@ppelberg will follow up

In T244651#5906745, @Urbanecm wrote:

@Patriccck asked me to translate his thoughts. Here it is!

I personally think mentioning is an useful feature, but I understand some people don't like. For me, it's always better if someone mentions me, because that's more visible than just the watchlist. I can easily overlook a watchlist entry. There also are some users who don't even have a watchlist.
I like the current approach of your team.

Hope that helps!

Hearing how you, @Patriccck, come to learn about comments/conversations where your input is needed is certainly helpful – thank you for translating, @Urbanecm!

@Patriccck, I've added your thoughts to the ticket where we are developing ideas for how we might increase the likelihood people receive responses from others they are trying to communicate with: T233447#6048081.