If you want to change values in CldrNamesRu.php, you need to do it at http://cldr.unicode.org/ via http://cldr.unicode.org/index/survey-tool

And maybe an override in LocalNamesRu.php?

If it is in the ISO 639, you need to change it via CLDR survey tool. In the tool, you need to convince others to vote for your version of translation. (Currently, votes from Apple, Google and Microsoft agree that “языки разных семей” should be the wining translation. See https://st.unicode.org/cldr-apps/v#/ru/Languages_K_N/63ef268c21be0de8) Please do not manually change the CldrNamesRu.php as the next CLDR data import will override your changes.

Better late than never…
Opened a ticket: https://unicode-org.atlassian.net/browse/CLDR-13673

sounds like something that should already be fixed. Can we fix this locally?

Ok for langco? @Amire80 @jhsoby

Thank you for reporting this issue. The language committee can't help you here.

In T245927#7152696, @Esc3300 wrote:

sounds like something that should already be fixed.

It would probably have been fixed a year ago if had followed the instructions. Please email me your request for access and I'll give you permissions to fix the translation:
https://translatewiki.net/wiki/CLDR

Meanwhile I've alerted the Google and Apple translators about the matter, because we'll need another org to agree with us.

FWIW, one of the other translators referenced "ГОСТ 7.75-97" as rationale for the current translation. There is indeed a map at https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/ГОСТ_7.75–97 where "mul" is listed as "Разных семей языки". That's all I know.

It seems the process at CLDR isn't really working. This can be fixed at WMF sites directly. langco usually reviews such requests. The question is if the updated Russian name accurately reflects the use of the code.

In T245927#7164813, @Esc3300 wrote:

I updated the task for LocalNamesRu.php and added the usual one week for patches as due dates. It may still be fixed/communicated to CLDR as well.

Based on what is this ready to go? I don't see LangCom approval.

Based on T285076#7164202 . Seems I asked them for review/input by error.

I updated the task for LocalNamesRu.php and added the usual one week for patches as due dates

That's not how they are used. Please don't add Due dates for tasks you are not working on yourself.

In T245927#7164866, @Nikerabbit wrote:

I updated the task for LocalNamesRu.php and added the usual one week for patches as due dates

That's not how they are used. Please don't add Due dates for tasks you are not working on yourself.

Do you have anything to support your POV? It seemed fine to Aklapper T256649#7157111 and the timeframe is the one from T284276. Note it doesn't apply to the person working on it, just to the update step of local names.

For comparison: How do you monitor the CLDR part?

It seemed fine to Aklapper

This is not a hard deadline, as pointed out in T284276#7160239. Please do not set Due Dates. Thanks.

Because of all the random discussion here I have a hard time understanding where we are now.

Language committee: What is your current understanding of what we should be doing?

@Lydia_Pintscher (current) task description should be complete and accurate

Shall we move ahead with this or seek further input on Project Chat in Russian?

I left a note on Wikidata:Форум#"multiple languages" name for "mul" language code in Russian

the rename doesn't seem to be problematic for WD either

In T245927#7158529, @Nemo_bis wrote:

FWIW, one of the other translators referenced "ГОСТ 7.75-97" as rationale for the current translation. There is indeed a map at https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/ГОСТ_7.75–97 where "mul" is listed as "Разных семей языки". That's all I know.

GOST should not be the only source for the translations, and in this case it alters the meaning of the label pretty significantly, so it should just be ignored. In English, this label is ‘multiple languages’, in Russian, GOST label is ‘languages of different families’. Language families are a specific term and it has a meaning, so using that translation from GOST is incorrect.

Once again (since nothing changed since T189511), it is a disgrace that Wikimedia community uses CLDR system without any possibility for our rich language communities to change the labels to correct ones. These changes should be done by just asking local communities if they agree with them, not by going through an arcane bureaucracy that requires years to fix things.

Oh, I'm only somehow noticing this task now.

The suggested name "несколько языков" is obviously better than "языки разных семей" for Wikidata's use case, and probably for all other use cases. It's probably OK to update it in LocalNamesRu.php.

I'm wondering, however: where does the name "языки разных семей" actually appear in the user interface of features that are deployed on Wikimedia sites?

On Wikidata item pages, the message wikibase-language-name-for-terms-mul is used for mul labels. This message is translatable on translatewiki: https://translatewiki.net/wiki/MediaWiki:Wikibase-language-name-for-terms-mul/ru . Its current translation is "по умолчанию для всех языков". I happen to be the person who translated this message into Russian, but I'm very far from being the main maintainer of translations into Russian on translatewiki. I think that it's a good translation, but if anyone else from the Russian-language Wikimedia community wants to change it, I probably won't object. But that's not quite what this task is about.

In T245927#10424907, @stjn wrote:

it is a disgrace that Wikimedia community uses CLDR system without any possibility for our rich language communities to change the labels to correct ones.

It's totally possible to change them if they are wrong, and it was done many times for many languages. Russian is my native language, and in the case of mul, I agree that the upstream data from CLDR is obviously wrong. It's not super-convenient to make these changes, because it requires a Gerrit patch, but it's definitely doable.

So I'll be happy to Just Do It, but as I wrote above, I'd love to know where does "языки разных семей" actually appear. I quite often use Wikidata, Wikifunctions, Meta, and some other Wikimedia sites with Russian user interface, and I don't think that I have ever seen it.

Gerrit patch is fine and is relatively low difficulty as it goes, but usually these sorts of things get ping-ponged between CLDR and MediaWiki without much resolution. I only saw this now myself and it reminded me of the ‘Crimean Turkish’ debacle. Instead of a streamlined process for changing these things locally and then raising the issues with upstream maintainers, we have a complete mess where volunteers are expected to register on a separate bug tracker and wait for years for Unicode Consortium to take note. When in an ideal world, all this should require is just someone asking the relevant language community if this change makes sense, changing the error locally if it does, and then raising the issue upstream. Not an arcane bureaucratic thing that gets stalled for years because no one at the WMF wants to own fixing this stuff and no one at Unicode level is interested in factual resolution either.

wikibase-language-name-for-terms-mul is used in labels. This current label appears if some sort of value uses ‘mul’ as a language name: https://www.wikidata.org/?oldid=2292704228&uselang=ru (as well as when using {{#language:mul|ru}} parser function anywhere).

In T245927#10424910, @stjn wrote:

When in an ideal world, all this should require is just someone asking the relevant language community if this change makes sense, changing the error locally if it does, and then raising the issue upstream.

That's the usual process in Wikimedia. This particular task got stuck for some reason, and maybe something similar happened in other cases, but the usual process is what you describe as "ideal" :)

What I would call "ideal", however, is that the upstream CLDR maintainers would resolve reported issues much faster :)

wikibase-language-name-for-terms-mul is used in labels. This current label appears if some sort of value uses ‘mul’ as a language name: https://www.wikidata.org/?oldid=2292704228&uselang=ru (as well as when using {{#language:mul|ru}} parser function anywhere).

Thanks for the example. I'll send a patch to fix it now.

Change #1107094 had a related patch set uploaded (by Amire80; author: Amire80):

[mediawiki/extensions/cldr@master] Add a local name for "mul" in Russian

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/1107094

Change #1107094 merged by jenkins-bot:

[mediawiki/extensions/cldr@master] Add a local name for "mul" in Russian

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/1107094