Page MenuHomePhabricator

Remove selected rights from unregistered users on mswiki
Closed, DeclinedPublic

Description

mswiki would like to remove createpage from unregistered users per https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat#Removing_right_of_any_user_group

Only bots, sysop and crat should be able to ‘reupload-own’ and only bot and sysop should be able to ‘changetags’

Event Timeline

RhinosF1 moved this task from Radar to DO NOT USE on the User-RhinosF1 board.
RhinosF1 moved this task from DO NOT USE to Extensions & Core on the User-RhinosF1 board.
RhinosF1 moved this task from Backlog to Config - to process on the Wikimedia-Site-requests board.

Blocking on SRE, per https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Limits_to_configuration_changes/Update_2019

This needs a sysadmin to agree to it.

It must meet the following conditions:

  • The wiki is prepared to handle drafts in a timely manner
  • The wiki has a well developed and editing and administrative community
  • The wiki should have ‘unusually broad’ consensus for the change.
Urbanecm changed the task status from Open to Stalled.Mar 25 2020, 4:14 PM
Urbanecm subscribed.

Moving away from SRE's column, as SRE!=sysadmin, and stalling (and a sysadmin isn't someone neded now, we need some answers to the conditions mentioned above). As @RhinosF1 already said, this isn't easy to have.

We also count 9 support, 1 oppose so we need a bit more of a consensus.

RhinosF1 renamed this task from Remove ‘create page’ from * on mswiki to Remove selected rights from unregistered users on mswiki.EditedMar 25 2020, 4:25 PM
RhinosF1 updated the task description. (Show Details)

Updated per someone who can read the actual discussion

per discussion

"remove createpage, move-rootuserpages, changetags, applychangetags, reupload-own" from unregistered user
and also
"Only allow bots Sysop and 'crat to do reupload-own"
and also
"Only Allow bots and sysop to do changetags"
that's all.

CyberTroopers subscribed.

Thank you for your attention about this. Regarding these condition:

  1. The wiki is prepared to handle drafts in a timely manner

:What kind of draft did you actually say? I hope you can precise it.

  1. The wiki has a well developed and editing and administrative community

:I would say most of editing in Malay Wikipedia is very active. As what is shown the activity today based on this statistic, https://ms.wikiscan.org/date/20200325/stats we have a total of 331 user who edits in Malay wikipedia including sysops.

  1. The wiki should have ‘unusually broad’ consensus for the change.

: We have set up the consensus for >5 months and icllude announcement at the notice site. We also did announcement to reach up all users in Malay Wikipedia. As you can see, we have majority vote to remove this right. It's just forbid IP user from creating articles not from editing. So, Wikipedia is still free knowledge for everyone. We also provide a page for them to ask for article creation just in case they wish for a page to have in Malay Wikipedia. It's one of ways to control the quality of Wikipedia contents as well. This task only works for IP user. This might be one of way to promote Wikipedia editing to the ip user to have an account. I hope system adminstrator can consider this task. Thank you!

Thank you for your attention about this. Regarding these condition:

  1. The wiki is prepared to handle drafts in a timely manner

:What kind of draft did you actually say? I hope you can precise it.

Draft articles from IPs that would go through a AFC-like process

  1. The wiki has a well developed and editing and administrative community

:I would say most of editing in Malay Wikipedia is very active. As what is shown the activity today based on this statistic, https://ms.wikiscan.org/date/20200325/stats we have a total of 331 user who edits in Malay wikipedia including sysops.

  1. The wiki should have ‘unusually broad’ consensus for the change.

: We have set up the consensus for >5 months and iclude announcement at the notice site. We also did announcement to reach up all users in Malay Wikipedia. As you can see, we have majority vote to remove this right. It's just forbid ip user from creating articles not from editing. So, wikipedia is still free knowledge for everyone. It's one of ways to control the quality of Wikipedia contents as well. I hope system adminstartor can consider this task. Thank you!

We would expect high turnout at these votes. 10 people isn’t that high.

Ad 2) 331 isn't really a high number (I'd consider it relatively small). cswiki, my homewiki, is a mid-size wiki, and it has about 1000 active editors. enwiki, the flagship project, has about 135k active users. dewiki, another big project, has 18k active users.

One of admin had adviced me that 10 voters might not guaranteed this task. I think it is much better if I continue the consensus process again. And once we have done, to whom should I contact? ;)

One of admin had adviced me that 10 voters might not guaranteed this task. I think it is much better if I continue the consensus process again. And once we have done, to whom should I contact? ;)

Just leave a comment here :)

Ad 2) 331 isn't really a high number (I'd consider it relatively small). cswiki, my homewiki, is a mid-size wiki, and it has about 1000 active editors. enwiki, the flagship project, has about 135k active users. dewiki, another big project, has 18k active users.

Yes our project is not really big but I've read tonns of attack and vandalism articles from the IP user. Well, we can stay sit and delete also block the IP user for now as the real person of the articles did not read about the attack articles about themselves YET.

We don't want a same case happens just like Seigenthaler. Like I say, the IP user still able to contribute. However, if they would like to contribute more, they can create an account. I would say it is not difficult to do so. We did not forbid them from contribute in Wikipedia. ;)

Unassigned per onwiki conversation.

Please link to the discussion from the task.

Unregistered users do not have move-rootuserpages, changetags, applychangetags or reupload-own (list of permissions) so I removed those from the request.

It doesn't really make sense to change reupload-own without changing reupload so presumably that should also be limited to sysops.

Is there a particular reason for the upload and changetag changes, by the way? I doubt you get much change tag vandalism.

Here's my view on the situation but only a sysadmin will be able to have the final say:

(1) is prepared to handle drafts in a timely manner,

I see no clear evidence of any draft acceptance procedure so I can't agree to that.

(2) has a well developed editing and administrative community, and

The size of the wiki is too low to meet this point.

(3) has established an unusually broad consensus for the change. The first two points can be addressed by appealing to the wiki's size: the number of active editors, sysops, bureaucrats, and other functionaries should be similar to "big wikis", otherwise a very good explanation will need to be given as to why the request should be accepted

The consensus for the change is significant but not "similar to 'big wikis".

Regarding,

Only bots, sysop and crat should be able to ‘reupload-own’ and only bot and sysop should be able to ‘changetags’

I'm not seeing a need for that either and it seems to be something mentioned in an unclear manner 50% of the time so I'd say no to it as well.

@Urbanecm: Did you have a chance to review this?

Thanks for the reminder @RhinosF1.

@CyberTroopers The issue is this change closes the wiki, and thus, closes the community. This is why we're trying to make sure the community is well prepared to handle drafts and generally is one of the larger wikis.

I have an idea: maybe we should talk about the issue your community faces, rather than about the solution. I'm sure we can figure out how to handle the issue your community faces without unnecessarily closing the wiki down significantly. What do you think?

RhinosF1 changed the task status from Open to Stalled.May 10 2020, 5:07 PM
RhinosF1 triaged this task as Low priority.

Per what @Urbanecm just said

No response, please answer the above questions and reopen if still needed.