Please provide an up-to-date list or table of fallback languages
Closed, ResolvedPublic
Actions

Assigned To

Authored By

	Elitre
	Jul 21 2020, 1:41 PM

Description

I need something like https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Localisation_statistics , or like https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Module:Fallbacklist - basically, a single page (not a visual) that allows me to quickly search for a language name and figure out which fallback language/cluster it belongs to.

If I had to check only on a few languages, I'm aware, per Amir, that I could manually look for the $fallback line in the relevant file in https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/plugins/gitiles/mediawiki/core/+/refs/heads/master/languages/messages/ , but that is not doable for dozens or hundred checks.

If we had an up-to-date list, we may be able to build better delivery lists for MassMessage rather than always resorting to using English to message wikis. (Think https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Distribution_list/Global_message_delivery/fr, but it also has Wolof and others.)

If folks know how to build such a resource, even though they can't personally do it - please just document it? Thanks.

Related Objects
Search...

Status	Assigned	Task
Duplicate	None	T116294 A guide for WMF Engineering teams to prevent known problems with volunteers
		Unknown Object (Task)
Duplicate	None	T114324 Finalize CL toolkit within Product development
Declined	None	T125805 WMF product development process 1.0
Declined	None	T125806 Consolidate the WMF product development process overview
Declined	None	T125807 Consolidate the Understand subpage of the product development process
Declined	None	T125808 Consolidate the Concept subpage of the product development process
Declined	None	T125809 Consolidate the Plan subpage of the product development process
Resolved	Elitre	T118231 Proposal: any WMF software project willing to be prioritized requires a concept publicly available
Declined	None	T86157 Require WMF Engineering quarterly goals to have an associated Phabricator task
Resolved	Qgil	T90360 Create a "Roadmap" project for visualisation of what's up-coming
Resolved	Keegan	T120070 Recommendation for projects requesting prioritization or resources
Resolved	Elitre	T126952 Integrate Risker's checklist for content-creation extensions to the WMF product development process
Declined	None	T125810 Consolidate the Develop subpage of the product development process
Declined	None	T125811 Consolidate the Release subpage of the product development process
Duplicate	None	T119891 Document checklist for releasing a new feature
		Unknown Object (Task)
Declined	None	T125812 Consolidate the Maintain subpage of the product development process
Invalid	Keegan	T125815 Consolidate the Communities subpage of the product development process
Duplicate	Qgil	T125545 Phabricator Q&A session for Community Liaisons
Resolved	Qgil	T116025 Goal: Align Community Liaison and Developer Relations project management practices
Resolved	Qgil	T119387 Community Liaison and Developer Relation quarterly goals for January - March 2016
Declined	Keegan	T124022 Goal: Clarify community engagement in WMF product development process
Duplicate	Trizek-WMF	T121499 Goal: improve liaison between communities and developers, when there is no CL dedicated time
Resolved	• Moushira	T121648 Do a mini research on best practices for product decision making in like-minded movements or platforms
Resolved	Qgil	T128448 Technical Collaboration quarterly goals for April - June 2016
Resolved	Keegan	T138339 Create a systematic approach to community engagement for product development teams
Resolved	Keegan	T123611 Define good practices to start working on project concepts privately
Resolved	Keegan	T131883 Communication workflows between WMF Product teams and Wikimedia communities
Resolved	Keegan	T124288 Communication channels between communities and teams involved in the product development process
Resolved	Keegan	T132622 Agreement on when and how Product teams communicate
Resolved	Keegan	T132643 Agreement on when and how communities provide feedback.
Resolved	Keegan	T137226 Improve discoverability of product updates
Resolved	Johan	T137231 Help the Wikimedia translators community by collecting translation information onto one page
Declined	Elitre	T144625 First review of the Technical Collaboration Guidance by Foundation Product teams and most active technical volunteers
Declined	None	T130602 Are messages from the WMF negatively affecting small Village Pumps?
Resolved	Pginer-WMF	T258492 Please provide an up-to-date list or table of fallback languages

Event Timeline

Elitre created this task.Jul 21 2020, 1:41 PM

Restricted Application added a subscriber: Aklapper. · View Herald TranscriptJul 21 2020, 1:41 PM

Elitre added a parent task: T130602: Are messages from the WMF negatively affecting small Village Pumps?.Jul 21 2020, 1:47 PM

Reedy added a project: Documentation.Jul 21 2020, 1:50 PM

What format do you want the list in?

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:MediaWiki_fallback_chains.svg is (only) 2 years old.

@Legoktm The way info is available at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Module:Fallbacklist works for me, if it makes sense.
I believe that one may be based on the data the .svg uses, and Amir commented it's too outdated and didn't recommend using it.

@Amire80 I notice that @Nikerabbit actually updated https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:MediaWiki_fallback_chains.svg back then.
It's still not in a non-visual format, but other than that I would have hoped for it to be accurate,
but I see that Ukrainian is still set to fallback to Russian which I thought wasn't the case any longer?

It's not uk -> ru, but rue -> uk, ru. The graph cannot distinguish such cases.

A text-based version of it would, though.

developer@dev:~/mediawiki/workdir/languages/messages (master)$ grep '$fallback ' * | sed 's/^Messages\(.*\)\..* '"'"'\(.*\).;.*/\L\1: \2/;s/_/-/'
ab: ru
abs: id
ace: id
ady: ady-cyrl
aeb-arab: ar
aeb: aeb-arab
aln: sq
alt: ru
ami: zh-hant
an: es
anp: hi
arn: es
arq: ar
ary: ar
arz: ar
ast: es
atj: fr
avk: fr, es, ru
av: ru
awa: hi
ay: es
azb: fa
ban-bali: ban
ban: id
ba: ru
bar: de
bbc-latn: id
bbc: bbc-latn
bcc: fa
be-tarask: be
bgn: fa
bh: bho
bi: en
bjn: id
bm: fr
bpy: bn
bqi: fa
br: fr
btm: id
bug: id
bxr: ru
ca: oc
MessagesCbk-zam.php:$fallback = "es";
cdo: nan, zh-hant
ce: ru
co: it
crh-cyrl: ru
crh: crh-latn
csb: pl
cs: sk
cv: ru
de-at: de
de-ch: de
de-formal: de
dsb: hsb, de
dtp: ms
dty: ne
egl: it
eml: it
en-ca: en
en-gb: en
MessagesEn.php:$fallback = false;
es-formal: es
ext: es
ff: fr
fit: fi
frc: fr
frp: fr
frr: de
fur: it
gag: tr
gan-hans: zh-hans
gan-hant: zh-hant, zh-hans
gan: gan-hant, zh-hant, zh-hans
gcr: fr
glk: fa
gl: pt
gn: es
gom-deva: hi
gom: gom-deva
gor: id
gsw: de
hak: zh-hant
hif: hif-latn
hrx: de
hsb: dsb, de
ht: fr
hu-formal: hu
hyw: hy
ii: zh-cn, zh-hans
inh: ru
io: eo
iu: ike-cans
jam: en
jut: da
jv: id
kaa: kk-latn, kk-cyrl
kab: fr
kbd-cyrl: ru
kbd: kbd-cyrl
kbp: fr
khw: ur
kiu: tr
kjp: my
kk-arab: kk-cyrl
kk-cn: kk-arab, kk-cyrl
kk-kz: kk-cyrl
kk-latn: kk-cyrl
kk: kk-cyrl
kk-tr: kk-latn, kk-cyrl
kl: da
koi: ru
ko-kp: ko
krc: ru
krl: fi
ksh: de
ks: ks-arab
ku-arab: ckb
kum: ru
ku: ku-latn
kv: ru
lad: es
lbe: ru
lb: de
lez: ru, az
lij: it
li: nl
liv: et
lki: fa
lld: it, rm, fur
lmo: pms, eml, lij, vec, it
ln: fr
lrc: fa
ltg: lv
luz: fa
lzh: zh-hant
lzz: tr
mai: hi
map-bms: jv, id
mdf: myv, ru
mg: fr
mhr: mrj, ru
min: id
mnw: my
mo: ro
mrj: mhr, ru
mwl: pt
myv: mdf, ru
mzn: fa
nah: es
nan: cdo, zh-hant
nap: it
nb: nn
nds-nl: nl
nds: de
nl-informal: nl
nn: nb
nrm: fr
oc: ca, fr
olo: fi
os: ru
pcd: fr
pdc: de
pdt: de
pfl: de
pih: en
pms: it
pnt: el
pt-br: pt
pt: pt-br
qug: qu, es
qu: qug, es
rgn: it
rmy: ro
roa-tara: it
rue: uk, ru
rup: ro
ruq-cyrl: mk
ruq-latn: ro
ruq: ruq-latn, ro
sah: ru
sa: hi
scn: it
sco: en
sdc: it
sdh: cbk, fa
ses: fr
sg: fr
sgs: lt
sh: bs, sr-el, hr
shy-latn: fr, arq
sk: cs
skr-arab: ur, pnb
skr: skr-arab
sli: de
srn: nl
sr: sr-ec
stq: de
sty: ru
su: id
szl: pl
szy: zh-tw, zh-hant, zh-hans
tay: zh-hant
tcy: kn
tet: pt
tg: tg-cyrl
tly: ru
trv: zh-hant
tt-cyrl: ru
tt: tt-cyrl, ru
ty: fr
tyv: ru
udm: ru
ug: ug-arab
vec: it
vep: et
vls: nl
vmf: de
vot: fi
vro: et
wa: fr
wo: fr
wuu: zh-hans
xal: ru
xmf: ka
yi: he
za: zh-hans
zea: nl
zgh: kab
zh-cn: zh-hans
zh-hant: zh-hans
zh-hk: zh-hant, zh-hans
zh-mo: zh-hk, zh-hant, zh-hans
zh-my: zh-sg, zh-hans
zh: zh-hans
zh-sg: zh-hans
zh-tw: zh-hant, zh-hans

TYSM! I will figure out where to put this ASAP ^_^

In T258492#6492352, @Elitre wrote:

TYSM! I will figure out where to put this ASAP ^_^

I've clarified the link (formerly just "(grep)") in the last sentence of https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Language#Fallback_languages for the link to the code search.
IIUC that link is giving the same output as Nikerabbit's comment above? If so, that might cover it? Alternatively we could add a link to the comment above, into that page, but that will rapidly get outdated.

That doesn't look like a friendly page for someone as lost as I was. But agreed that we may not need much more than a link at this time.

bd808 mentioned this in T270671: Configure fallback locales for vue-i18n.Dec 22 2020, 4:17 AM

Winston_Sung added a subscriber: Winston_Sung.Mar 20 2021, 10:37 AM

Winston_Sung removed a subscriber: Winston_Sung.

Iniquity mentioned this in T253309: Add MediaWiki fallback language scheme for Convenient Discussions.Apr 10 2021, 6:56 PM

In T258492#6655926, @Elitre wrote:

That doesn't look like a friendly page for someone as lost as I was. But agreed that we may not need much more than a link at this time.

Based on the previous comments I'll close the ticket, but feel free to reopen if additional details are needed.

Mh-3110 added a subscriber: Mh-3110.Nov 11 2021, 2:48 PM

Please provide an up-to-date list or table of fallback languagesClosed, ResolvedPublicActions

Description

Related ObjectsSearch...

Event Timeline

Please provide an up-to-date list or table of fallback languages
Closed, ResolvedPublic
Actions

Related Objects
Search...