For the record, here is a list of past requests:

• T206927: +2 for Zoranzoki21 in mediawiki/*
• T215112: +2 for Zoranzoki21 in mediawiki/*
• T231758: +2 in mediawiki/* for Zoranzoki21
• T243700: +2 for Zoranzoki21 in mediawiki/*

Considering your previous requests, I would like to ask one question before making my opinion: "What do you think that changed between your last request and this request? In another words, why do you feel people should support you this time?"

I can't comment directly on the merits of the +2 requests because I don't know enough about the requirements and process. But I can attest that at WikiTeq @Kizule has always been eager to help and eager to learn. Of note, he steps in to perform important but less exciting tasks, and I think his commits reflect this as well.

Please send a message to wikitech-l as required by policy.

In T282786#7086462, @Majavah wrote:

Please send a message to wikitech-l as required by policy.

Oh, I forgot about it, will do now.

In T282786#7085276, @Urbanecm wrote:

For the record, here is a list of past requests:

• T206927: +2 for Zoranzoki21 in mediawiki/*
• T215112: +2 for Zoranzoki21 in mediawiki/*
• T231758: +2 in mediawiki/* for Zoranzoki21
• T243700: +2 for Zoranzoki21 in mediawiki/*

Considering your previous requests, I would like to ask one question before making my opinion: "What do you think that changed between your last request and this request? In another words, why do you feel people should support you this time?"

Good intention should always be assumed. I volunteer here to help, and I have no intention of doing any harm. The thing that has changed is that I have more knowledge, experience and that I'm working more on reviewing patches by other people.

In T282786#7086462, @Majavah wrote:

Please send a message to wikitech-l as required by policy.

Done. https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/XEVWVPJOROU5ECXKQ7U2P4XXABKKSY3M/

In T282786#7086558, @Kizule wrote:

I'm working more on reviewing patches by other people.

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/q/reviewedby:Zoranzoki21+project:mediawiki/core does not seem to show much of that work at the moment. For better or worse, getting merge rights for all of mediawiki/* in gerrit is largely gated by the nominated individual's contributions to the base MediaWiki project.

I will echo what many others have said on your past self-nominated +2 requests: you do make useful technical contributions to the MediaWiki ecosystem and we are glad to have you helping the project. I'm just not sure that you have demonstrated a need to be able to merge any patch in any mediawiki/* repository at this point.

I could write an essay, but I will try to be as short as possible.

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/q/reviewedby:Zoranzoki21+project:mediawiki/core does not seem to show much of that work at the moment.

It is for mediawiki/core. https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/q/reviewedby:Zoranzoki21 is for mediawiki/*.

I'm just not sure that you have demonstrated a need to be able to merge any patch in any mediawiki/* repository at this point.

Okay, it is your opinion. Thanks for it. Let me try to explain my intentions. English is not my main language, I will do my best for you to understand me.

I want to help @Umherirrender and others with fixing this mess made by Libraryupgrader (https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/q/owner:tools.libraryupgrader%2540tools.wmflabs.org+status:open), as well as to help other (volunteers).

Of course, I would deal with other patches as well (for which I'm sure that won't break anything), not just Libraryupgrader's. I gave one example.

By the way, help is always welcome, especially from the experienced volunteers.

In T282786#7086805, @Kizule wrote:

I could write an essay, but I will try to be as short as possible.

For me, it would be very interesting as I am highly interested in the dynamics of the developers in the Wikimedia movement ecosystem. While I myself am desperately searching for mechanisms to unblock stalled projects such as T208758 I would not see how this could be solved by granting additional rights. From my observation, I see that the principles and guidelines change quite frequently. Just to keep up to date with the latest developments requires a substantial commitment of volunteer hours.

How do you imagine that your activities will change if rights were granted to you?

Oppose. I am sorry, but your response to my question does not satisfy me. I appreciate your Wikimedia technical community work, but +2 is not given to people who mostly do rote commits, but to people who are capable to review commits, bearing in mind that "Part of a +2'ers job is to ensure that code, even simple patches, don't have unintended consequences." (@Bawolff, T243700#5832169, January 2020). Proving that capability requires +2 candidates to have non-trivial commits merged in the repository.

I went through the candidate's previous +2 self-nominations, and I collected a list of quotes that others might find interesting: P15969. Honestly, I think that the history recorded in the requests themselves is worrying – as it looks to me that each +2 self-nomination was responded to with similar concerns to what I am raising here.

Sincerely, Martin Urbanec

Thanks for your comments, let me respond on this:

In T282786#7090172, @Physikerwelt wrote:

In T282786#7086805, @Kizule wrote:

I could write an essay, but I will try to be as short as possible.

For me, it would be very interesting as I am highly interested in the dynamics of the developers in the Wikimedia movement ecosystem. While I myself am desperately searching for mechanisms to unblock stalled projects such as T208758 I would not see how this could be solved by granting additional rights. From my observation, I see that the principles and guidelines change quite frequently. Just to keep up to date with the latest developments requires a substantial commitment of volunteer hours.

How do you imagine that your activities will change if rights were granted to you?

For me, it would be very interesting as I am highly interested in the dynamics of the developers in the Wikimedia movement ecosystem.

I give up writing though. Maybe on another occasion. Let me keep this as simple as possible.

While I myself am desperately searching for mechanisms to unblock stalled projects such as T208758 I would not see how this could be solved by granting additional rights. From my observation, I see that the principles and guidelines change quite frequently. Just to keep up to date with the latest developments requires a substantial commitment of volunteer hours.

The biggest problem is the slowness of reviewing. I think on the initial time since the patch was uploaded to comment or approval by someone. Some patches (which are simple) are not reviewed for a month or two. I don’t think that actually it attracts volunteers.

From my observation, I see that the principles and guidelines change quite frequently. Just to keep up to date with the latest developments requires a substantial commitment of volunteer hours.

Giving +2 rights to me would relieve at least a little of the other reviewers in this group. And yes, I would ensure that code, even simple patches reviewed by me, don't have unintended consequences (thanks @Urbanecm for having free time to read my previous nominations and collect quotes btw :) ).

In addition, I would increase my activity, do more testing, and the like.

On @Urbanecm's comment, I don't have anything to say, only that I'm surprised.

In general, on Serbian Wikipedia, some users were as trustless as you are, but over time I have shown that they were not right. I am thinking specifically about my candidacy for the right of the administrator there.

If I forgot to answer something, remind me. :)

Reviewing for +2 requires knowing a lot of fields. Traditionally, such knowledge is gained (and expressed) by having written more complex patches which got merged.

In my interpretation of reading stuff, people seem to come from different directions here. Very very simplified: "+2 comes with great responsibilities so it requires having experience and systems knowledge in more complex situations and areas" versus "I want to help with a perceived bottleneck in the code review process".

@Kizule my impression of the problem is different. All my (trival) patches to core were merged extremely quick (a few days). The problem is to get non-trival stuff reviewed.
The list of @Urbanecm P15969 is interesting.
I think if you reply or comment on patches that is already a great help. I think a patch that has already a +1 is more likely to get a +2. Do you have examples of currently open patches where you would use "+2"?

Sure.

Example 1: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/mediawiki/extensions/SideBarMenu/+/691942
Example 2: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/mediawiki/extensions/MyVariables/+/691169 - After fixing
Example 3: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/mediawiki/core/+/691274

None of these are non-trivial IMHO. To show you the other end of spectrum something like is non-trivial. Like something that changes the behavior is non-trivial (one patch I recently picked up). What I personally do care is "-1"s, if you manage to find bugs and issues in review (that's why it's there). I personally despise -1s for nitpicks. Do you have examples of your -1s?

In T282786#7091609, @Ladsgroup wrote:

None of these are non-trivial IMHO. To show you the other end of spectrum something like is non-trivial. Like something that changes the behavior is non-trivial (one patch I recently picked up). What I personally do care is "-1"s, if you manage to find bugs and issues in review (that's why it's there). I personally despise -1s for nitpicks. Do you have examples of your -1s?

Okay, thanks. Two examples of -1:

1. https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/mediawiki/extensions/MyVariables/+/691169
2. https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/mediawiki/extensions/LegalLogin/+/681355

@Kizule I appreciate the contributions you make to the projects, but I'd ask you to consider why, instead of keep insisting on these +2 rights don't you try to contribute to fixing medium-sized bugs in mediawiki the WMF teams don't tackle? That would be much more useful than having +2, and would probably both allow you to learn new stuff and maybe one day get +2.

Also let me add: I find really problematic that the same person asks the same rights 5 times in a row (more or less). It shows (in my opinion) a thirst for power, rather than feeling the burden of responsibility +2 rights imply. I would oppose this request just on that basis.