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Display the latest comment indicator next to the siteSub/contentSub messages
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ppelberg
Apr 22 2022, 1:02 AM
Referenced Files
F35528572: Screen Shot 2022-09-22 at 9.59.55 AM.png
Sep 22 2022, 5:00 PM
F35470617: image.png
Aug 17 2022, 9:51 PM
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Aug 17 2022, 9:51 PM
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May 19 2022, 12:06 AM
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May 19 2022, 12:06 AM

Description

This task involves the work of deciding how to move forward with implementing the last comment indicator that the Editing Team is proposing included in the set of talk page Usability Improvements they are implementing.

Background

  1. The Usability Improvement design concepts (T299814) propose the introduction of a dynamic string of text that will appear beneath talk page titles. This text would include:
    • The date when the last comment was published to the page
    • The username of the person who published the last comment
    • The section within which the last comment was published
  2. The introduction of "1." would conflict with the existing siteSub message which individual projects have the ability to set/define

"1." and "2." amount to the ===Open questions listed below, which we will address as part of this task.

Open Questions

  • 1. What – if any – concerns do volunteers have about the Editing Team repurposing the siteSub element to display the "last comment indicator" ?
  • 2. What – if any – concerns does the WMF Legal Team have about the Editing Team repurposing the siteSub element to display the "last comment indicator" ?
  • 3. How could the "last comment indicator" be used as a vector for abuse? What – if anything – can be done to prevent this from happening?
  • 4. How might the Editing Team implement the "last comment indicator" on mobile considering there does not seem to be a preexisting place/component/element for it to be placed within and appear in the position the designs specifies (immediately beneath the page title)?

Done

  • Answers to all ===Open questions are documented in this task ---

Visual reference

DesktopMobile
Proposed design
Page frame.jpg (206×923 px, 40 KB)
page frame mobile.jpg (251×614 px, 38 KB)
Current siteSub at bn.wiki
Screen Shot 2022-04-21 at 5.26.25 PM.png (546×598 px, 71 KB)
Screen Shot 2022-04-21 at 5.40.17 PM.png (680×678 px, 52 KB)
Current siteSub at en.wiki
Screen Shot 2022-04-21 at 5.25.46 PM.png (402×832 px, 67 KB)
Screen Shot 2022-04-21 at 5.40.28 PM.png (708×676 px, 60 KB)
Current siteSub at vi.wiki
Screen Shot 2022-04-21 at 5.26.09 PM.png (420×350 px, 38 KB)
Screen Shot 2022-04-21 at 5.40.22 PM.png (832×670 px, 64 KB)

Related Objects

Event Timeline

siteSub is for the tagline and only for the tagline. Additional information like breadcrumbs, FlaggedRevs indicators or the Wikidata description gadget go in contentSub, and DiscussionTools’ metadata should also do so (using OutputPage::addSubtitle). contentSub can contain multiple elements, so there’s no conflict.

Screenshot 2022-04-22 at 13-51-10 Talk Stephanie Jones-Rogers Archive 1 - Wikipedia.png (225×604 px, 30 KB)

@Tacsipacsi. Thanks - the current patch is using contentSub which avoids the issues with siteSub (or something else siteSub-like). I would also say that showing siteSub and contentSub together doesn't actually look that great (at least in Vector), so part of this task is considering if siteSub can be hidden on talk pages (as it is on special pages, action pages etc.), and also if our message could be made more prominent and/or positioned higher on mobile.

+1 to hiding siteSub on talk pages to make room for contentSub to be shown in that location

Would you be planning to hide siteSub with CSS? If that's possible, that would be preferred here.... (more context below)

Note, many wikis hide siteSub already via MediaWiki:Common.css, and I'm not 100% sure about how useful it is. While thinking about T225529 I was wondering if we might be able to remove it, or at least move it into some kind of extension/configurable option that populates a generic subtitle element (mw-subtitle).

@Esanders @Jdlrobson do you know why the contentSub has a left margin? I think it looks better without one:

with marginwithout margin
image.png (474×1 px, 139 KB)
image.png (474×1 px, 140 KB)
image.png (600×1 px, 183 KB)
image.png (600×1 px, 183 KB)

I like the indented version more, but that may be just because that’s what I’m used to—these margins haven’t changed for almost 18 years (since 1e30c02696f)! However, if a design expert says that the unindented version is objectively better for some reason, I can get used to it. (But with the promise that legacy Vector will be kept as is, I think this change should apply only to new Vector, not to legacy Vector or Monobook.)

@alexhollender_WMF yeh I think removing the indent looks better, but we should create a separate ticket to handle that rather than doing it as part of this task.

@alexhollender_WMF yeh I think removing the indent looks better, but we should create a separate ticket to handle that rather than doing it as part of this task.

sounds good, and actually this was already being tracked here: T307715: Align contentSub with page title

#siteSub is hidden by some wikis via MediaWiki:Common.css, so repurposing that will likely cause some issues.

Rather than repurpose an existing element, this seems like this could fit in nicely with a new element the web team would like to add: the article tagline.
On mobile for some projects this is Wikidata descriptions (see https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Hampshire for an example)

Web team have this card in backlog: T225529 which aims to create a generic “description” for all articles that is set to empty string that skins can update and output it in Minerva and Vector (this would push us in the direction of a more structured contentSub).

It seems if we did this work, the editing team would just need to use the hook to set the HTML.
3rd party skins want this capability too so would be popular with our skin development community.

matmarex renamed this task from Reconcile conflict between latest comment indicator and siteSub message to Display the latest comment indicator next to the siteSub/contentSub messages.Aug 17 2022, 9:10 PM
matmarex subscribed.

(I'm rephrasing / increasing the scope a little, since I noticed that we don't have another task for discussing the implementation, and the discussion here already went further than what the task said.)

Change 785172 had a related patch set uploaded (by Bartosz Dziewoński; author: Esanders):

[mediawiki/extensions/DiscussionTools@master] Show latest comment info in subtitle

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/785172

For reference, here's basically the worst case for other subtitles shown on a talk page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/ASL_Hungary_Flight_7332. This page has the site subtitle / tagline "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" (specific to English Wikipedia, not shown on most projects), a "breadcrumbs" link to the parent page (because it's a subpage), and a notice that you followed a link through a redirect (because the page was renamed, and I used an old link in this example).

image.png (261×1 px, 43 KB)

If we just add our latest comment indicator to the bunch, it would look like this:

image.png (261×1 px, 46 KB)

Maybe it's not the finest design known to humankind, but most pages won't look so silly, and I think this is acceptable anyway given what was already there.

(I like the idea of aligning all of the messages to the left, as proposed in T307715.)

Test wiki created on Patch demo by AHollender (WMF) using patch(es) linked to this task:
https://patchdemo.wmflabs.org/wikis/4eb67fbee0/w

@nayoub I'm not sure what the actual font-sizes are/will be, but I've added what I'm seeing in this patchdemo (11.76px) to this task T313828: [EPIC] Typography: improve typography and allow for variable typography settings . We're hoping to standardize to two or three sizes (maybe 16px for article text, 14px for interface elements, and 12px for smaller text).

Change 785172 merged by jenkins-bot:

[mediawiki/extensions/DiscussionTools@master] Show latest comment info in subtitle

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/785172

For reference, here's basically the worst case for other subtitles shown on a talk page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/ASL_Hungary_Flight_7332. This page has the site subtitle / tagline "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" (specific to English Wikipedia, not shown on most projects), a "breadcrumbs" link to the parent page (because it's a subpage), and a notice that you followed a link through a redirect (because the page was renamed, and I used an old link in this example).

@matmarex is it expected that on the page you mentioned above [i] that the section title is not included within the latest comment indicator? [ii]

...I assume "yes" considering the latest comment [iii] does not existing within a section.


i. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/ASL_Airlines_Hungary_Flight_7332?dtenable=1#c-Northamerica1000-2016-08-25T18:10:00.000Z
ii.

Screen Shot 2022-09-22 at 9.59.55 AM.png (546×1 px, 147 KB)

iii. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/ASL_Airlines_Hungary_Flight_7332?dtenable=1#c-Northamerica1000-2016-08-25T18:10:00.000Z

ppelberg claimed this task.

Test wiki on Patch demo by AHollender (WMF) using patch(es) linked to this task was deleted:

https://patchdemo.wmflabs.org/wikis/4eb67fbee0/w/