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[[MediaWiki:Apihelp-*]] shows unhelpful "Do not translate" message on twn
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I encountered this “This message is used in a technical context. Do not translate it unless you are sure that all technical terms are handled correctly.” when trying to check out translatewiki, but this isn’t the first time I’ve seen this.

The issue here is there is almost zero context (aside from the string being “technical”), so the string is impossible to translate. Saying it is “used in a technical context” is meaningless and unhelpful; translators need full context — what’s before, what’s after, what’s the field, what’s the audience, how the string is used, etc. “Technical” can mean many things, and even within the same discipline the same “technical” term can be translated in different ways depending on context.

A previous “task” (I’m not sure if these are dummy strings or real strings), in a different language pair, gave useful context (heading in a table, and provided a link to the table in question); in that previous “task” if the context (the actual table) wasn’t provided the string would also have been untranslatable.

For reference, a normal CAT used in professional translation shows before/after context; and PO files (that are not stripped) show file names and line numbers, which we can use to locate context in source code. In both cases there are times even this level of context is insufficient and we’d have to see the layout or run the software to see how a particular string should be translated. The current CAT (“Tux”?) does not even provide the level of context provided by PO files.

Asking people to translate with no context is just asking for mistranslations. I was on Meta the other day and fixed a bunch of translations that were all mistranslated because there was no context and the previous translator guessed wrong.

(PS: I don’t know why I’m being taken to Phabricator.)


Message URL: https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&showMessage=apihelp-collection%2Bsettitles-example&group=ext-collection-api&language=yue

Event Timeline

I tried to skip a few strings and encountered another of these. It has the word “add”, which is untranslatable unless we know precise context; I’ve alluded to this problem (the exact same word) when discussing Tech News issue 2022/50 on Meta (https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tech/News/2022/50).

If these are dummy strings for evaluation purposes I don’t think they are well-designed. You can’t assess translators by giving them ambiguous strings without also giving them enough context to disambiguate.

(PS: I don’t know why I’m being taken to Phabricator.)

This is the issue tracker for bug reports and feature requests. :)

The message seems to come from https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Template:Doc-apihelp-description or https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Template:Doc-apihelp-extended-description . There might be several things here: The template on translatewiki.net could welcome improvements. Or if the string itself is unclear, a codebase welcoming improvements. Not sure how to best proceed.

Aklapper renamed this task from [[MediaWiki:Apihelp-collection+settitles-example/yue]] translation issue to [[MediaWiki:Apihelp-*]] shows unhelp "Do not translate" message on twn.Dec 14 2022, 10:00 AM
Amire80 renamed this task from [[MediaWiki:Apihelp-*]] shows unhelp "Do not translate" message on twn to [[MediaWiki:Apihelp-*]] shows unhelpful "Do not translate" message on twn.Dec 14 2022, 10:29 AM
Amire80 subscribed.

Thanks for the question.

Apihelp messages are used on Special:ApiSandbox and Special:Apihelp, which are different views of the same thing: automatic documentation of API actions and parameters.

The documentation of this message says quite clearly: "This is a MediaWiki Action API example description for the “collection+settitles” module. See API:Main page at MediaWiki.org for general information." There are many Apihelp messages, so their documentation is somewhat repetitive. If you want to translate Apihelp messages, it's a good thing to do, but you should first familiarize yourself with these two special pages, and then it should become clearer. You'll understand how API examples documentation is used, among other things.

However, the message documentation also emphasizes the fact that these are technical messages precisely because they are technical. They will only be used by very advanced users, such as gadget and bot developers. Therefore, you should consider first translating mesaages that are not Apihelp, because they are seen by many more people. This is also the reason for separating all the Apihelp messages into distinct message groups on translatewiki: they should be translated with a lower priority, and by the most experienced users and translators.

So I'm closing this as Declined, because the documentation for the Apihelp messages is correct, and links to further instructions.

If you have questions about other, non-Apihelp messages, please create a separate Phabricator task or ask at the Support page on translatewiki.

This is not a question, and this is not about the Apihelp template (sorry for using Wikipedia jargon here). This is about the inappropriateness and unhelpfulness of this message while a new translatewiki translator is being “trained/tested” (sorry for being ambiguous because that site is being very ambiguous of what we’re seeing).

I maintain that “‘technical” is meaningless. You are assuming a very English-centric view and one issue here (there are many) is that when the target language is not English, the same “technical” term (whatever technical means) can have multiple translations so just saying it is “technical” is useless without providing the precise context the term is used.

Or, rather, it *was* a question, in that we are essentially told to come here to ask a question *about that string*, or at least how that message is perceived. If this is not the intention that template should be fixed so it communicates the correct message.

PS: I don’t know why ApiHelp is even being mentioned here. No one (from the translator’s POV) knows what it means, and “technical” is an undefined term (from our POV).

PPS: From our POV you could even say we clicked a link that would take us to translatewiki support, but we end up here instead. That’s why I said initially that “I don’t know why I’m being taken to Phabricator.” If you think the message is very clear, you are wrong.

It says: "See API:Main page at MediaWiki.org for general information.", where API:Main page is a hyperlink. Have you read it?

If you have particular suggestions about how it can be clearer, you're welcome to bring it up. However, translating any piece of software requires some familiarity with the software. The API is an advanced and complicated piece of MediaWiki. In fact, the API documentation of other software packages is usually not translatable at all. Putting more detail in the sidebar documentation ia not practical, and that's what the hyperlink is for.

It says: "See API:Main page at MediaWiki.org for general information.", where API:Main page is a hyperlink. Have you read it?

The message I saw doesn’t even mention the word API. Have you read the message from a user’s POV? All we see is the term is technical with a big link that says “click here to get more help”.

I’m sorry I can no longer reproduce this because I’ve been promoted there to a normal translator. I can no longer find the problematic messages.

If you want to see what we see, you can maybe go there and apply as a new translator, then translate to a language that’s NOT English.

And let me reiterate: There was ZERO context in that string, and therefore the string is not translatable. I have seen what a string with a link to context looks like; that string that triggered this “question” did not have that kind of link.

Please believe your users. If a message in a template does not communicate, it does not communicate even if a link is hidden somewhere obscure.

PS: All this is not new information; it’s all in the initial comment.

PPS: You are making a lot of unfounded assumptions here, and you clearly did not read my initial comment. I clearly wrote that I know about PO files so it’s quite clear that I’ve done software translation before.

BTW, the actual API message that accompanies some of the strings I saw is completely meaningless. All we see is something like API strings should not be translated (note that it does not say should not be translated unless you know the API; it says they should never be translated), and since the string in question doesn’t look like it has to do with any sort of API, and we’re clearly presented with a string that should be translated, the whole message just looks like a random useless message put there by mistake. This is how unclear these templates are.

Phabricator is for problems in the code, which includes English source messages. This problem, as described in the original report and in the further comments, is not in the code or in the source, but in the templates for documenting API messages. The problem may be valid, but it's not right to discuss it on Phabricator. The correct place for discussing this is https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Support