Hi @TmY_e12!

Thanks for making this task! However, I think that 2 edits per minute is a very low number. According to the MediaWiki.org docs, the ip limit is enforced on all non-autoconfirmed accounts from one IP address combined. In another words, two for users who are editing Wikipedia from the same IP address share the same limit. IP addresses are frequently shared by multiple users thanks to NATs and similar features. Limiting the number of edits per minute to two will probably have huge effect on outreach events or school editing, where many people edit Wikipedia at once.

If there are any ongoing issues with the rate of anonymous edits, would you mind describing them in more detail, so less restrictive measures can be suggested?

Thank you!

Hello @Urbanecm

Thank you for your warning. The community took this consensus to prevent malicious mass changes by IPs, which often happens at trwiki. I assume the users who showed their support know that the decision may affect people who contribute from the same network. However, maybe we should be sure, and warn the community about its possible effect.

I'll write a message at trwiki about its negative aspects for contributors from the same network, and then post here their general opinion.

Thanks again

Hello @Urbanecm
As an active patroller in TRWiki since 3 years and one of the most suffered from IP vandals, I will try to share my experiences. My patrolling activities change from time to time, but I can safely say one of my tabs is almost always "Special:RecentChanges" when I'm online.
I'm new to here, I hope my comment won't cause a problem with here's guidelines.

In Turkish Wikipedia, IP vandalism is extremely high and it keeps rising. In 2021, I started trying to stop one vandal that keeps adding wrong categories on purpose. Its edits were easily at least 2 or more edits per minute. My warnings and reverts only caused its harm to increase. Not only articles, but my user page is affected by its harmful edits. It kept changing IP's and most of the time it was in a range like "79.223.0.0/16". I was lucky that his "outlier" IPs were mostly open proxy and blocked later. But I had a really hard time convincing "normal" ranges like previous one, kept getting replies like "but what if innocent users are affected?" That loaded another heavy responsibility on my shoulders: proving that innocent users are little to none". So I kept analyzing if any innocent user exist in the ranges I requested. I was lucky that a handful of them had literally "zero". So currently I succeeded stopping it, mostly.

It is most often not the case though. For example there are two vandals, that coincidentally use "78.183.100.0/16" range. Since a few months, both of them are very active almost everyday, and most often surpass 2 edits per minute. But both use a wide variety of IP ranges, those often clash with normal users. Another one nicknamed "Cedreon" https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kullan%C4%B1c%C4%B1:Cedreon appears from time to time, to harass the community with IPs. Another active one nicknamed "Ben Ördeğim" https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kullan%C4%B1c%C4%B1:Ben_%C3%96rde%C4%9Fim keeps adding swear words to articles for years. There are really many examples that give a hard time to the community. Especially me, who is tired of reporting same people over and over, only for them to reappear with another IP days, hours even minutes later. Letting them to what they want does not work, many do not stop causing harm. Administrators and patrollers are often busy, some patrollers are unable to notice hidden vandalism. It frustrates me that contributing in TRWiki is turning into a "sand castle". You build, build and some insistent vandal destroys everything.

It is really not a long time for a normal contributor to wait for just thirty seconds to make an edit. I can assure you that two different person does not use the same IP adress in a mere minute there.

Dear Urbanec, I hope I was able to shed a glimpse of light to what Turkish Wikipedia is going through, for years. At this state, regular users like me feel more restricted against sockpuppets and vandals. I believe many from our community share the same feelings against this problem.

People participating in events can be easily informed by volunteers about IP edit limits, it is not hard for them to create an account also. Please compare, one event in a month against every single day.

You can also translate comments here to follow, if you want https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikipedi:K%C3%B6y_%C3%A7e%C5%9Fmesi_(teknik)#Teklif_a%C5%9Famas%C4%B1
Even though my academic major is pretty "technical", I'm far from being a good one at the moment. So please forgive me if I have used wrong terms.

We really appreciate any help, thank you.

Hi @Urbanecm,
I'd like to offer a few insights from an admin's point of view about the viability of the change filter. I'm writing new filters for these types of edits & account creation. It usually can block some types of vandals, but for these two I couldn't found a sustainable solution with filter. Even if I can find patterns sometimes to block them, it won't work because of the automatic disable of editfilter actions when the filter has higher match rate from usual. While they are active, they are exceeding the rates, so community discussed about reducing the rate of anonymous edits per minute as a solution.
If you have another suggestion, which will work, I can translate & ask to the community.

The community still has the consensus on making edit rate limit change. At this stage, I believe that the best thing to do is to discuss it again if any negative affect is seen.

@Urbanecm

Hello @Urbanecm
I must state that this problem is still pretty prevalent. I kindly request to reconsider your opinion.

Hi @Urbanecm
This issue still persists. Considering the vandalism on the "Nazmiye" page, you can see that this restriction is not unnecessary. Thanks.

Being bold is crucial. The limit needs to be set as indicated to deter vandalism; even if for a period of time. It may be agreed upon to set the limit as indicated for i.e. 3 or 6 months and watch for any negative effects. As of now, current situation only adds unnecessary workload to readily available editors; and is keeping addition of quality content at an absolute low.

Change #1038247 had a related patch set uploaded (by GergesShamon; author: GergesShamon):

[operations/mediawiki-config@master] [trwiki] Reducing count edits ip and newbie per minute

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/1038247

Hi @TmY_e12, I would ask the community if the change is still wanted?

In T330811#9855094, @GergesSH wrote:

Hi @TmY_e12, I would ask the community if the change is still wanted?

There has been no further discussion since I opened this task. So it can be assumed as yes.

Change #1038247 merged by jenkins-bot:

[operations/mediawiki-config@master] [trwiki] Reducing count edits ip and newbie per minute

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/1038247

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2024-06-03T20:05:59Z] <urbanecm@deploy1002> Started scap: Backport for [[gerrit:1034882|EventLogging: Enable IP reputation logging (T354597)]], [[gerrit:1037897|[trwiki] Allow translator group to publish translation only in Extension:ContentTranslation]], [[gerrit:1038247|[trwiki] Reducing count edits ip and newbie per minute (T330811)]]

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2024-06-03T20:10:17Z] <urbanecm@deploy1002> kharlan and urbanecm and gergesshamon: Backport for [[gerrit:1034882|EventLogging: Enable IP reputation logging (T354597)]], [[gerrit:1037897|[trwiki] Allow translator group to publish translation only in Extension:ContentTranslation]], [[gerrit:1038247|[trwiki] Reducing count edits ip and newbie per minute (T330811)]] synced to the testservers (https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mwdebug)

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2024-06-03T20:36:13Z] <urbanecm@deploy1002> Finished scap: Backport for [[gerrit:1034882|EventLogging: Enable IP reputation logging (T354597)]], [[gerrit:1037897|[trwiki] Allow translator group to publish translation only in Extension:ContentTranslation]], [[gerrit:1038247|[trwiki] Reducing count edits ip and newbie per minute (T330811)]] (duration: 30m 14s)

In T330811#9852811, @Gerges wrote:

Hi @Urbanecm, From the comments of Turkish Wikipedia users, Turkish Wikipedia suffers from IP vandalism is extremely high and it keeps rising, So tomorrow I will start implementing this task.

Hi @Gerges, thank you for your interest, I for one stopped regularly contributing since November 2023 because of this, I hope a definitive solution can be found in the foreseeable future.

Though, does it really work? https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96zel:Katk%C4%B1lar/2A02:8108:8380:0:0:0:0:0/32 edits from this sockpuppet range seem pretty high in a short time span. (Note: this sockpuppet for example is really active since 2018, as soon as a range block ends we are back to same sneaky vandalism cycle, and there are soooooo many different anonymous sockpuppets with various edit patterns.)