Hi, could you please elaborate? A lot of chat systems already exist. What is a "wiki chat" specifically? Was this discussed somewhere beforehand? Thanks.

Hello André, all,

the idea for this hackathon could be to have a bracket covering the Wikimania event in Singapore.

The aim is to have a unique focus creating a new product for wiki as a side result of this event with success.

Often such events like a hackathon have only non-aligned tasks to look at a database or to optimize tool for something.
Depending on the amount of members of such a hackathon and usually a mixed structure of qualification and age and mixture of intern and new to be acquired people, a success of such a hackathon can be defined on a well prepared and structured event with a unique focus on the results.

The suggestion is to elaborate together, and I am willing to prepare this group dynamic event with you, a detailed concept and task overview to have both, a good process with group dynamic as well as an excellent result.

As people at such events need one day to get clear about the result and do research, need to acquire information and get into the context, the second day even is about to get together in the group and find the own contribution, of in spite of learning, not having the qualification to proceed immediately and also to be dependent on the group mentor.

However, this Hackathon, if there are at least 15-20 persons, is a nice group which has mostly high potentials and is worth to support with a good preparation and a common, popular task which aligns the current discussions about information technology and also the inner ideas and values of Wiki and the people engaged there. Wikimania is also an idea to think out of the box and especially the “Nerd-Forum” for a Hackathon allows both, to spin for wild ideas and also to integrate the broad variety and different, often special interests of newcomers and experienced people in such an event for the interests of Wikimedia – possibly as a future employer of these people interested in a Hackathon.

However, the proceeding of such an event has highest interest for the organization and is worthful to have one common and aligned project to feel a part of the organization right from the beginning. You do not create and have such an identification, if the people of the hackathon do not know what is wanted, do not know what they can bring in, and there is no common goal.

So my recommendation would be to have not daily work tasks of employees being present at that event, such as looking into databases and how data can be pulled out. Instead, the full working processes of Wikimedia should be represented. And that is only given, if we step into project management. We need the processes of technical aspects, the processes to address to a user, to document things, to have marketing an press releases and overall to align the work or to be created product with the overall strategy of the organization and with the existing ideas and products.

Wikimania allows to have emphasis, to meet with those who are also interested and ready to do the extra mile, and the shop in shop system for a hackathon could be the think tank to simulate, to have a lab as a safe space, there cannot go anything wrong, as it is no problem is one person or group cannot fulfill their task or some thoughts have to be integrated.

This you all archive only with a dedicated project with high goals, with prepared mentors per sub-group (or one person well prepared to be present in a rotation for all groups. For sure the groups need also time to think on their own without a mentor.
The idea for such a project for the hackathon has not been yet present for Wikimedia. That`s why it should be aligned here with you and we can elaborate it within the next days right in time. If you like, besides this first explanation, I am willing to create with you as organizers and mentors at this event e.g. a power-point presentation with the project definition and the proceeding and group work and their tasks. Please send me a ppt-template for a powerpoint, in case you want to run that event with an integration of my support for you for that event.

Well, that for the procedures and settings of such events.

Now to the proposed project. A Chat Tool, an Instant Messenger – sure there are many on the market. That is not the idea of a hackathon. The Hackathon is a training for exploration of own skills and to get in touch with an organization that could benefit from the identification or even to be considered as an employer in the later stage. The special people, to be able to hack, to brin in instant, to be flexible to lean within short hours, to align within the group and coordinate work processes and task, within the group and over the sub-group with handshakes to other groups, are to be attracted for the future, to build some symbol light to extern people and for sure to give intern impulses as well.

So, one might have the opinion that the project subject does not matter. Well. for sure you can think also about a project to create a video service like tiktok explaining in the educational sense an article of Wikipedia. Transforming the text-based learning to a visual learning. But then this is a real task for them. I would prefer to have it a simulation project, which is near the organization and the technology work, but free to think about own contributions, how to do it, why to do it and what to do.

So, even if chat systems are there, the chat system to polish or re-design at the wikimania hackathon should have some unique elements to propose.

The Chat System should be one development in spite of the discussion of free information and free learning. As the people are able to read and learn with Wikipedia, the idea to have free speech is valid in the same sense.

If you look around the chat systems should be controlled, there is chat control and smartphone control discussed at the same time Apple and Facebook announce to widthdraw chat applications from the UK because of the Online Safety Bill.

Some points on the above-mentioned background are essential:

The Chat Ecosystem must be open source in Application and Server.
The Chat Messenger needs to have end to end encryption.
The Server should be able to federate with other servers.
Decentral Chat Systems for Communities should be easily to be build
Users need to be able, to set up the chat server easily on their self.
The Community Approach is most important for Chat as the Wikipedia is also build up on community contributions.

WikiChat could be a new idea. That has to be evaluated. It is not evaluated by me or you or us or the board of the wiki, it should be externalized: The hackathon also evaluates and creates a strategy, how any why wikichat alignes with wikimania or is just a training purpose of the hachathon as one workshop element of the wikimania.

You see, depending on the proceeding and success and the to be build common sense at the end of the week, the idea of a chat / messenger product or idea can be steered on several levels. It is just a training workshop for some Hackers to be interested in wiki, it can be one successful result for the whole Singapore event and after that also a follow-up from Wikimedia can have a press release, if we can build upon that.

The idea of the hackathon is by its nature, to hack very fast in and come very fast to a higher step. We will see what in the end is to be presented and how the internal establishment will appreciate that. Normally they do.
Only in the long run the question is, if after one year a living product or even interest is still valid.
Enough for the introduction and justification.

For the Messenger project we need 15 -20 members of the workshop.

The Group will be presented the subject for the week with different sub-groups. It would be ideal, if some CVs or at least skill-lists and interests could be seen, to create a pre-definition of the sub-groups.
The Subgroups need to consider

Group 1: Setting of the existing servers for the Chat Messenger, there are three servers types and for each server they should elaborate and try on the different operating systems. The group is responsible in the background to provide three IP Addresses for the groups working in the Chat System. In case Singapore can only operate one IP address or virtual machine, that is also fine and working, The group task is quick done and need no special skills, once set up, which is really some minutes to go, the group can chill or even support the other groups.

Group 2: The group will test and elaborate the Chat App / Client. The idea is to get familiar with all functions and to speed up with the creation of a short manual who to use the Chat. This is the internal training and learning group. Here UX-Tester and Document Writers find a home. They have to get quickly familiar with the App and multiply their skills to the others. Within the same day, they have to show the app all participants of the workshop, all members of the hackathon should be in the messenger for 1:1 chat and also get into their own group chat.

Group 3: UX Designers. They have to make a proposal how to improve the GUI of the Chat App. Group Members of Group 1 und 2 can join this group in case there is free time. Some Basic tasks will be given in the forehand from the organizators of the hackathon

Group 4: Is a special skill group of android Studio designers. They need to set up the code and change the code according to the UX Designers. We will see what will be possible within the next 5 days. As the chat App is ready to use, just needs some polishment, anything is possible and nothing is wrong. There will be success in the end in any case. As it is a fork respective a rebranding, the only needed case or result besides learning is to rename the App to a found name, e.g. work-name WikiChat. That should be easy to change the brand name in the Gui.

Group 5: Strategy and Product Creation. This group will think about: First: Why the world need decentral open source encrypted chat in the same sense as the right for free Information out of the Wikipedia. Second: how a product of Wikimedia can support community needs to create an own chat system in app and server, e.g. for each school to learn about compiling, technical maintenance and how the project was run by Wikimedia/Wikipedia. And Third: What the contribution of the Hackathon, or later Wikimedia could be to offer besides the code also some service for the community in regard of the chat application, e.g. a test server for the chat or to provide Schools with training for own chat systems in class rooms or social movements to be able to use community rooms beside Telegram and such central and closed source (in code) cannels. As the members for the hackthon will be more based on technical skills rather than M&A or Marketing or strategy skills, this group will be a small group and though gets also the second task to create a release and press announcement strategy to report about the results of the hackathon (as a model, not to release it in reality, if not afterwards approved by the wiki people). So it is a proposal for the Wikimania event and the people running it and taking it to the leaders and decision makers, probably board to appreciate the results of such a workshop. Hence this group justifies why and makes some noise about the appreciated results. The exploration character of such a workshop especially hackathon shows why we do not need that to do in the beginning to get the topic onto the agenda. We just do it and it is all just a simulated case study.

So for 5 groups we mostly need Android developer skills and we have not jet added a group 6 to create a development plan to develop the same chat app for Apple. Here no code basis is yet given it would be a project from scratch and not possible to create that within 5 days. So the strategy group could have that also as a third task to create a project plan how to develop that for IOS. As the code basis needs to be transferred from java to an Apple Language, e.g. swift or flutter, probably the technicians from the group 1 for the server an join the strategy group, once the servers are set up and analyze the java code to be transferred to flutter or swift, depending on the two persons having a skill in that.

The groups are coached by one dedicated person, if wikimania has five people to guide that, otherwise one person is rotating in every group.

The idea is to bring in one server technician, two developers with android skills, two developers with swift and/or flutter skills, one Marketing/Strategy/and Press person and one person to coach the group for the graphical user design. So that would be ideally 7 Persons from wikimania.

In case you want to run that project topic at the Wikimania Hackathon, please screen your teams to find some support for this idea and name some persons being able to support the sub-groups. At least one person being able to hit the compile button of android studio and being able to replace the name of the app to fork it.

As said, even if no progress is made in the sense of development, there will be much learning and identification with Wikimedia.
If you like, we should set up this text in a powerpoint of a dozen pages to be presented in the beginning and explaining the group tasks.

Also, you should think about the project name or just work-name. WikiChat seems to lay near, but probably some different Name as a work name can be found by the marketing department if Wikimedia until the hackathon finds and decides about a better name. In case you do not want to involve to many departments in the beginning, WikiChat is fine or also WikiWhat is also a fine name.

Surely you now ask, why not to use XMPP or Matrix as server. That is the wrong questions and leads not to the idea of a Hackathon, These are established products and besides, not easily to address and maintain (from the server part). And sure, people are at Whatsapp or Telegram and Signal. The idea is to hack-in, support and evaluate, just for training purpose and seeing what will come out of it purposes, a smaller unknown tool and its potentials. However, to work on chat is the most common process internet users use on the internet besides reading and looking up texts in the Wikipedia. So it is time to address chat and see what the external group of hackers will evaluate with that.

Please find an internal approvement of this idea for subgroups and topic.

In case granted, I will be reliable to provide you some ppt-slides with the content proposed above.
Also we need and should integrate some representations (CV) of the group mentors and probably in the beginning one page of self representation of the participants. Ideally we create a one pager to be filled out by the participants which they present themselves in the beginning in the opening.

As it comes to sync between us, I think the PPT idea is not good, probably we can work that out in a wiki, in which several people can edit things at any time parallel ( this means then that the group coaches get no additional hints, as all is readable by all). Well, there will be no group competition, as all will work on this aligned topic.

Thanks for a feedback, if we want to proceed that way. It would be nice before we invest further hours, that the idea is granted and not other topics are parallel given, or if already on the agenda, lets prove it they can be integrated.

Kind Regards Tom

@Thomasccwiki: Thanks a lot for the additional information. What has been your personal involvement with Wikimedia communities and activities in Wikimedia communities so far?

All in all, I'm afraid I do not understand what this has thematically to do with Wikimedia and Wikimedia's mission?

The idea of the hackathon is by its nature, to hack very fast in and come very fast to a higher step.

I do not think so. Have you checked https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Hackathons ?

Hi, running such subgroups for several times though not yet for wikimedia in that conceptual proposal and everyone knows different styles for collaborating, sight seeing an task orientation should not exclude and mostly include learning. A project goal is feeding all these ideas best.
For the Hackathon the number of people, subscribed wanting to participate in that format, should be known and how many remote persons will take part. Probably the overall meet and greet opening should ask all participants to take part in the Hackathon, especially as in this concept also marketing, strategy, user experience, documentation and such is involved, these group can take up to ten people and build different experiences for small and bigger groups to work in.
It would and will be a nice experience for all to collaborate in the various processes and groups, led by the mentors.
The main critical mentor to find would be one person able to compile in Android Studio. Anyone given?

regarding the mission:

"the Foundation provides the essential infrastructure and an organizational framework for the support and development of multilingual wiki projects and other endeavors which serve this mission."

Why should only a word document (or html page) be the infrastructure to read and learn and not a 1:1 chat in which the infrastructure is served by wikimedia to read and learn in a dialog with a chat partner. Bulding peer groups to learn in a group chat is a infrastructure which can be used to learn as well? and that can be served and evaluated as a technical field as well.

What has been your personal involvement with Wikimedia communities and activities in Wikimedia communities so far?

to read and learn in a dialog with a chat partner.

See https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chat , https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC , https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Telegram , https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discord for existing chat systems used by (parts of the) Wikimedia communities.

...and T312707 likely makes more sense.