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Minor bot edits don't trigger email notifications even with "E-mail me also for minor edits of pages" selected
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Description

When a bot edits a page on your watchlist, and your preferences are configured to send you an email notification on new edits to watchlisted pages (and assuming the wiki is configured to do so), it usually doesn't result in an edit notification (every once in a while it does, but I haven't been able to find any sort of common element to these cases, so I don't know what causes it). This wouldn't be a problem, except that if an edit notification isn't emailed for that edit, it also never gets sent for any subsequent edit to that page, meaning that if you don't use your watchlist to keep up with edits to a wiki, you can miss subsequent changes to that page for an indefinite period of time.

I've observed this across several wikis on Wikia as well as on the Minecraft Wiki (http://minecraftwiki.net), and across multiple versions of MediaWiki.

See Also:

Details

Reference
bz38874

Event Timeline

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Reedy added a comment.Jul 31 2012, 8:28 AM

Because it's a bot edit. In theory, they should forcibly mark an edit as NOT a bot edit via the API

Most (all?) flagged bot edits don't trigger email notifications for things like this

Reedy added a comment.Jul 31 2012, 8:49 AM

(In reply to comment #1)

Because it's a bot edit. In theory, they should forcibly mark an edit as NOT a
bot edit via the API

Most (all?) flagged bot edits don't trigger email notifications for things like
this

Read: It's a feature, not a bug

(In reply to comment #2)

(In reply to comment #1)
> Because it's a bot edit. In theory, they should forcibly mark an edit as NOT a
> bot edit via the API
>
> Most (all?) flagged bot edits don't trigger email notifications for things like
> this

Read: It's a feature, not a bug

That's fine. The problem is, when a bot edit doesn't trigger an enotif, *no subsequent edits* to that page will trigger an enotif either (in this regard, this bug is similar to bug 27884). This is a problem if you rely on enotifs to keep up with changes on a wiki (as I do). This could be a preference that defaults to "don't send enotifs on bot edits" (vis a vis bug 13992) instead of just undocumented behavior.

(In reply to comment #3)

That's fine. The problem is, when a bot edit doesn't trigger an enotif, *no
subsequent edits* to that page will trigger an enotif either (in this regard,
this bug is similar to bug 27884).

That's a separate problem which doesn't belong to this bug: if it's not the same as bug 27884, please open another.

This is a problem if you rely on enotifs to
keep up with changes on a wiki (as I do). This could be a preference that
defaults to "don't send enotifs on bot edits" (vis a vis bug 13992) instead of
just undocumented behavior.

I agree that the current situation, with flagged bots not triggering enotifs on minor edits, is extremely confusing. If one has selected "E-mail me also for minor edits of pages" they should receive them.
Maybe this is even the case but there's no documentation and everyone is confused, see bug 13992 comment 6 (which caused a lot of problems to WLM notifications on Commons): maybe Benny can shed some light on the current behaviour?

(In reply to comment #4)

(In reply to comment #3)
> That's fine. The problem is, when a bot edit doesn't trigger an enotif, *no
> subsequent edits* to that page will trigger an enotif either (in this regard,
> this bug is similar to bug 27884).

That's a separate problem which doesn't belong to this bug: if it's not the
same as bug 27884, please open another.

Bug 42482.

> This is a problem if you rely on enotifs to
> keep up with changes on a wiki (as I do). This could be a preference that
> defaults to "don't send enotifs on bot edits" (vis a vis bug 13992) instead of
> just undocumented behavior.

I agree that the current situation, with flagged bots not triggering enotifs on
minor edits, is extremely confusing. If one has selected "E-mail me also for
minor edits of pages" they should receive them.
Maybe this is even the case but there's no documentation and everyone is
confused, see bug 13992 comment 6 (which caused a lot of problems to WLM
notifications on Commons): maybe Benny can shed some light on the current
behaviour?

I have that preference selected as a matter of course for those wikis that I edit, and I still miss a *lot* of bot edits.

bsitu wrote:

(In reply to comment #4)

(In reply to comment #3)
> That's fine. The problem is, when a bot edit doesn't trigger an enotif, *no
> subsequent edits* to that page will trigger an enotif either (in this regard,
> this bug is similar to bug 27884).

That's a separate problem which doesn't belong to this bug: if it's not the
same as bug 27884, please open another.

> This is a problem if you rely on enotifs to
> keep up with changes on a wiki (as I do). This could be a preference that
> defaults to "don't send enotifs on bot edits" (vis a vis bug 13992) instead of
> just undocumented behavior.

I agree that the current situation, with flagged bots not triggering enotifs on
minor edits, is extremely confusing. If one has selected "E-mail me also for
minor edits of pages" they should receive them.
Maybe this is even the case but there's no documentation and everyone is
confused, see bug 13992 comment 6 (which caused a lot of problems to WLM
notifications on Commons): maybe Benny can shed some light on the current
behaviour?

Minor edits from bot would not trigger notification. "E-mail me also for minor edits of pages" is a user option but it would not overwrite the behavior. I think the problem is that watchlist notification timestamp is set even for bot minor edits, this results in no enotif for subsequent edits

(In reply to comment #6)

Minor edits from bot would not trigger notification. "E-mail me also for minor
edits of pages" is a user option but it would not overwrite the behavior.

Then the bot group's permissions are very confusing: "Not have minor edits to *discussion* pages trigger the new messages prompt (nominornewtalk)".

I
think the problem is that watchlist notification timestamp is set even for bot
minor edits, this results in no enotif for subsequent edits

Ok, this would be bug 42482/bug 27884.

This is again causing confusion at https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/66372/ , despite bug 41637 comment 6. Again, the assumption for this bug is that there should be a documented way both for users and bots/extensions to have bot edits trigger notifications; bug 27884 is a bug in any case.

Note that Echo excludes minor bot edits too, after bug 47910, and presumably has this bug too.

Quiddity updated the task description. (Show Details)Oct 5 2015, 11:06 PM
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Dalba awarded a token.Dec 28 2015, 6:33 AM
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Quiddity renamed this task from Minor bot edits don't trigger email notifications even with "E-mail me also for minor edits of pages" selected to Minor bot edits don't trigger email notifications even with "E-mail me also for minor edits of pages" selected, and prevent subsequent notifications from any edit.May 7 2016, 7:26 PM
Quiddity updated the task description. (Show Details)

nominornewtalk actually applies to all edits, not just user talk edits.

If a user (typically a bot) has this right, none of their minor edits will trigger notifications, period.

There could be a 'notifying bot' group (using $wgRevokePermissions) that would revoke this right.

If a user (typically a bot) has this right, none of their minor edits will trigger notifications, period.

And why is it worth? It's good to hide bot edits from RC as these edits could "flood" the recent changes list. However, it's usually not the case for someone's watchlist as there's a very little chance for a bot working only on pages on one's watchlist. nominornewtalk should do what it says: not send new message notifications, i.e. the orange banner (or Echo badge or whatever), period. Nothing more.

there's a very little chance for a bot working only on pages on one's watchlist

Actually this is extremely common: there are many bots which edit a majority of pages on a given wiki.

Then I'm lucky: I haven't experienced such yet, not even on Commons (on other "big" wikis I don't have large watchlists). In this case I would consider creating another user option to send emails even for bot edits (configurable still with $wgEnotifMinorEdits), as this is a real problem only for some wikis' main users (i.e. who have large watchlist on enwiki etc.), not other wikis and not users who have short watchlists on these wikis. (And e.g. enwiki doesn't even have minor edit emails so bot edits' email flood is not a current issue there.)

there's a very little chance for a bot working only on pages on one's watchlist

Actually this is extremely common: there are many bots which edit a majority of pages on a given wiki.

That doesn't mean the software should decide for me that I shouldn't get enotifs on bot edits. If I say I always want to be emailed for new edits to pages on my watchlist, I mean I always want to be emailed. If a bot run subsequently floods my inbox, that's my problem, and I'm fully prepared to handle such a thing (it wouldn't be the first time I've been swamped with hundreds or even thousands of emails).

Actually this is extremely common: there are many bots which edit a majority of pages on a given wiki.

That doesn't mean the software should decide for me that I shouldn't get enotifs on bot edits.

I did not say the contrary, I merely stated the fact. One is free to either worry about the many lost enotifs, or vice versa to worry about the potential increase in enotifs.

scfc awarded a token.Feb 26 2017, 6:24 PM
Mattflaschen-WMF renamed this task from Minor bot edits don't trigger email notifications even with "E-mail me also for minor edits of pages" selected, and prevent subsequent notifications from any edit to Minor bot edits don't trigger email notifications even with "E-mail me also for minor edits of pages" selected.EditedMay 4 2017, 12:30 AM

Subsequent is T29884: enotif doesn't send email if page on watchlist edited following a minor edit and enotif not configured to send minor edits..

I'm making this now about the original edit itself, not subsequent ones (discussion has shifted towards that already).