Page MenuHomePhabricator

Allow excluding pages from the page links notifications
Open, NormalPublic

Subscribers
Tokens
"Like" token, awarded by AlexisJazz."Burninate" token, awarded by Blahma."Love" token, awarded by He7d3r."Like" token, awarded by nyuszika7h."Like" token, awarded by JohanahoJ."Like" token, awarded by AVRS."Like" token, awarded by Elitre.
Assigned To
None
Authored By

Description

Discussed at Collaboration team meeting, July 7 2015 -- we may be able to do this with a "Mute" button on Echo items that you don't want to hear about anymore.

Needs more discussion + spec.


Use-case #1: Translated subpages
@Mattflaschen-WMF wrote:
I'm getting link notifications for each translation to a page.

For this particular case, the simplest solution is to exclude all translations. When they visit the original, they will still see the translation bar at the top letting them go to their language.

I filed this as a more general bug, since there might be other categories or types of pages to exclude from this notification later.


Use-case #2: Pages I simply don't want to be notified about, but wish to continue watchlisting
Many onwiki requests for this feature.
@Quiddity wrote below: E.g. "I've created many disambiguation pages, and I don't want to keep being reminded about them via Echo. But I do want to know when someone links to the more complex articles that I've started. Essentially, a blacklist for page-linked."


Use-case #3: Pages linked in a navbox template
If a page is added to a navbox, then I receive notifications whenever someone either

I would like to either:

  • find a way to exclude links-within-navboxes from triggering these notifications. I should only be notified about the addition of the link to the navbox itself. Or,
  • understand the cause of the notification more clearly/immediately (from the notification message itself), if it was triggered by a link within a navbox (it currently requires explanation from an experienced user).

See also:

Details

Reference
bz44787

Related Objects

Event Timeline

There are a very large number of changes, so older changes are hidden. Show Older Changes

This is connected with T100528, where some ideas to control the volume of Flow notifications were discussed. We may want to find solutions that are consistent for both cases (not only conversation-related notifications).

Suggestion via IRC, whilst discussing this feature request:
<Hangsna> i created the article "Keyhole Markup Language" in SVWP and now someone is adding a template for KML to a lots of articles and it gets linked all the time. I get new notifications by the minute....
<Hangsna> Also, "grouping afterwards" could be usefull. Now, if i have goten 10 links to a page its grouped together, but the next time i get 1 to the same page its a "new post". Just keep adding it up would prevent me getting the same line one time for every click
<Hangsna> like here: 22 links, 1 link, 5 links and so on....

We discussed this, and one way we could solve this in the short term is by doing T132981: Allow unwatching a page from a page-linked notification in combination with T132980: Only send page-linked notifications for watched pages.

FWIW, I think this should be restricted to the original title.
My personal use-case is: "I've created many disambiguation pages, and I don't want to keep being reminded about them via Echo. But I do want to know when someone links to the more complex articles that I've started. Essentially, a blacklist for page-linked."
However, I don't want to unwatchlist these disambiguation pages, so Catrope's suggestion doesn't work for me.

All I really want, is to be able to create a user subpage blacklist (i.e. one article-title, per line, at [[user:Quiddity/page-linked-ignore]]). Or similar.
This is only a power-user problem, and power-users would generally be fine with a KISS solution.
I vaguely recall discussing this proposed solution in a meeting, but I don't recall the details of why it might not be technically practical?

Luke081515 updated the task description. (Show Details)Apr 22 2016, 9:19 PM
Blahma added a subscriber: Blahma.May 9 2016, 9:05 PM

I vaguely recall discussing this proposed solution in a meeting, but I don't recall the details of why it might not be technically practical?

I don't know if we discussed this exact option. I think there was some discussion that a full mute system (by category, by page, by topic, different volume levels rather than just muted/unmuted etc.) might be more complex than worth it, and using the watchlist was thought to address the main need here.

You do raise a valid downside, though.

I vaguely recall discussing this proposed solution in a meeting, but I don't recall the details of why it might not be technically practical?

I think the latest proposal we discussed was captured in T115264#2248740
Maybe comments can be added there.

In T46787#2283682, @Mattflaschen wrote:

I vaguely recall discussing this proposed solution in a meeting, but I don't recall the details of why it might not be technically practical?

I don't know if we discussed this exact option. I think there was some discussion that a full mute system (by category, by page, by topic, different volume levels rather than just muted/unmuted etc.) might be more complex than worth it, and using the watchlist was thought to address the main need here.
You do raise a valid downside, though.

We definitely discussed it, and I pointed out that the ideal KISS solution would be to replicate how the "Mentions blacklist/whitelist" works, which is what Pau's great mockup iterates upon - https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Echo#Usage - I just don't recall what the technical response was to that.

Oh, and a simple "plaintext list in a user-subpage" implementation of "blacklist/whitelist", just for page-linked notifications, would also solve T66090: Allow "article-linked" notifications for pages in a user defined list.

Sidenote: I just confirmed, the page-linked notifications are unrelated to whether or not I've got the page watchlisted. It is only based on whether I'm the initial creator of the page. I unwatched [[john oliver]], and was still notified when a new link was made to that page.

Quiddity renamed this task from "Mute" button on Echo items that you don't want to hear about anymore (was: Allow excluding pages from the link notifications) to Allow excluding pages from the page links notifications.Sep 6 2016, 10:10 PM
Quiddity updated the task description. (Show Details)
Quiddity removed a subscriber: wikibugs-l-list.
AVRS awarded a token.Nov 16 2016, 10:00 PM
AVRS added a subscriber: AVRS.
JohanahoJ added a subscriber: JohanahoJ.
nyuszika7h added a subscriber: nyuszika7h.

Fresh report of frustration, particularly around use-case #3 which is very hard for any recipient to understand, at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Notifications#Spurious_notifications
(Basically, the link update here, is causing notifications for this edit (and many many others))

One suggestion in the thread I linked above:

My main objection is that the side effects are not mentioned and come as a surprise. Now that they are known they can be listed where one makes the choice.

Perhaps we could add someone to either the UI, and/or the docs, about this?

Usecase:
There are item on Wikidata that get hundreds of thousands of links because they are used centrally. I have created items like "adopted daughter" that have less traffic but where I also don't care about every new person that's added to Wikidata that has a new statement about their adopted daughter.

On the other hand I find great value in having links to new items in anatomy and get notified through them about new items in that space that I otherwise wouldn't know about so I don't want to completely deactivate this feature.

Usecase:
There are item on Wikidata that get hundreds of thousands of links because they are used centrally. I have created items like "adopted daughter" that have less traffic but where I also don't care about every new person that's added to Wikidata that has a new statement about their adopted daughter.
On the other hand I find great value in having links to new items in anatomy and get notified through them about new items in that space that I otherwise wouldn't know about so I don't want to completely deactivate this feature.

Thanks for detailing your usecase. Do you think the proposed solution in T115264#2248740 would work well for your usecase?

Marking notifications automatically as read still means that you have to wade through them when you go through unread notifications. If you have page that gets >1000 links per year (many pages on Wikidata do) that's still annoying.

He7d3r added a subscriber: He7d3r.
Quiddity updated the task description. (Show Details)Aug 8 2018, 7:22 PM
Restricted Application added a project: Growth-Team. · View Herald TranscriptAug 8 2018, 7:22 PM
kostajh edited projects, added patch-welcome; removed Collaboration-Team-Triage.
kostajh added a subscriber: kostajh.

Volunteer contributions are welcome for this, the Growth team won't have time to work on this in the short-to-medium term. It might be helpful if T115264: Notification panel: Control notification volume is resolved before beginning work on this task.

AlexisJazz added a subscriber: AlexisJazz.EditedOct 27 2018, 5:18 PM

I think I'm gonna have a serious problem with this.

I just changed an external link in https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:PD-1996 to an internal one, to https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Copyright_Office_circular_38a.pdf. Same file, I uploaded it.

Unfortunately.

Because I just got two notifications, one for https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Henri_Bo%C3%A9rio_(1976).jpg and one for https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Francis_Demarthon_(1978,_Jeux_M%C3%A9diterran%C3%A9ens).jpg. I know nothing about these files. I don't know those people. So it looks like I will now be notified of every single use of PD-1996. Why that is a problem you say? Oh I don't know, maybe you would understand if I would just spam you with dozens if not hundreds of useless notifications daily? Because that's the number I'm expecting.

Since this task has existed since 2013, I'll be forced to just create a sock, reupload the file, bother some file movers, never use the sock again and call it a day.

Edit:
Just got another dozen notifications. This will easily run into the hundreds and possibly thousands. So I created https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Alexis_Jazz_T46787. That's right, a username with this task number in it.

@AlexisJazz, what kind of notification do you receive?

If that's a "a page you've created had been linked", you're not supposed to receive a notification for it because you aren't the template creator.

@Trizek-WMF

I don't know, you tell me?

So that's an "a page you've created had been linked" and due to the bug, you're receiving the notifications.

At the moment, there are some options to avoid further noise:

  • make an external link to the ressource
  • have another account to upload files like that
  • disable the "Page link" notification in your preferences

All of those solutions have some disadvantages. I know that the best would be to have a way to exclude the pages, but there is no scheduled work about it for now. That's however a good candidate for the Community wishlist survey.

Ainali added a subscriber: Ainali.Mon, Oct 21, 4:45 PM
PamD added a subscriber: PamD.Thu, Oct 24, 3:24 PM

Please allow an editor to suppress "this has been linked to" notifications for selected pages.

I was planning to raise this on the Community Wishlist for the next round, but I see that it has been requested many times over the years by many different editors.

Some years ago I helpfully created an article about a publishing house when I saw it red-linked - and regretted doing so when I was notified every single time an editor cited and linked that publisher.

In August 2018 I created a helpful redirect from "Districts of Russia" to "List of districts of Russia". A few months later someone created an article at the "Districts of Russia" title, overwriting my redirect. There is now an infobox for Russian places which includes a link to this article. It has been linked to almost 19,000 times (there are a heck of a lot of places in Russia, each of which is within a district) and I have been notified every single time. Almost every time I log on I first have to clear a batch of notifications, almost all of which are of links to this one page. Please, please, free me from this. I want to see notifications for most of the articles I've created if they are linked to: either it's a topic I'm interested in, or quite often it's a disambiguation page which shouldn't be being linked to. But I need to be able to remove a handful of articles from that service, just as I see I can mute notifications from a specified editor if I want to.

This has been requested by a lot of editors over the years: can we please have some action?

Elitre removed a subscriber: Elitre.Fri, Oct 25, 10:13 AM
PamD added a comment.Tue, Oct 29, 12:13 AM

I see that there will be no opportunity to raise this on the Community Wish List this year. So please, after four years, just fix it. I am so fed up with acknowledging links to that "Districts of Russia" redirect I created: it has 19,827 incoming links and I have been notified about every single one. And switching off the "notify me of new incoming links" option is not a satisfactory solution: I want to hear about new incoming links to most of my article creations, but I need to be able to suppress such notifications for a few selected pages. What more can I do to encourage some action on this?

AlexisJazz added a comment.EditedWed, Oct 30, 6:51 PM

I see that there will be no opportunity to raise this on the Community Wish List this year. So please, after four years, just fix it. I am so fed up with acknowledging links to that "Districts of Russia" redirect I created: it has 19,827 incoming links and I have been notified about every single one. And switching off the "notify me of new incoming links" option is not a satisfactory solution: I want to hear about new incoming links to most of my article creations, but I need to be able to suppress such notifications for a few selected pages. What more can I do to encourage some action on this?

Ask an administrator to delete the redirect and recreate it with a sockpuppet, like I did with https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Alexis_Jazz_T46787.

Sadly.

Edit: wait, the redirect was changed into an article. Assuming you want to preserve the edit history, I guess an admin will have to hijack some random older edit and merge that with the article. I think that may change its creator.

Please allow an editor to suppress "this has been linked to" notifications for selected pages.

Do you have any thoughts on what the UX for this feature could look like?

I ask because it seems there isn’t a clear spec for this feature although there are a bunch of use cases defined in the task description and comments.

If we can get a shared understanding of what we want the feature to look like it becomes easier for people to contribute patches towards implementing the work.

Please allow an editor to suppress "this has been linked to" notifications for selected pages.

Do you have any thoughts on what the UX for this feature could look like?

Preferences/Notifications has a "Muted users" section. Perhaps a "Muted pages" section could be added.

Another possible UI solution that would work for this, T77154 and allow opt-in for notifications to arbitrary pages (I can't find the task for that) would be something similar to watchlist editing Special:EditWatchlist and Special:EditWatchlist/raw
I don't think this is mutually exclusive with Levivich's suggestion.

Do you have any thoughts on what the UX for this feature could look like?

I'll reiterate my suggestion from a few years ago:

All I really want, is to be able to create a [simple] user subpage blacklist (i.e. one article-title, per line, at [[user:Quiddity/page-linked-ignore]]). Or similar.
This is [mainly] a power-user problem, and power-users would generally be fine with a KISS solution.

I.e. Iff something really simple like that is easy enough to implement that it could be done soon, then I think that would be preferable to a more polished UX that could take a long time to be produced.
Detail: I'm (naively/non-dev!) hoping that the current existence of the (similar?) feature for blacklisting/whitelisting other types of user-to-user notifications, might make that solution technically easier to implement. I.e. The feature for https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Notifications#Community_blacklisting which uses pages like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Echo-blacklist to blacklist site-wide and then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Quiddity_(WMF)/Echo-whitelist to allow personal override-exceptions.

But if there's scope to do a more polished UX and soon, then something like Levivich suggests would work.

And there'd be great happiness if either solution could be bundled with a whitelist feature, per Thryduulf and the task-description's link to T66090: Allow "article-linked" notifications for pages in a user defined list

Forcibly inserting erroneous authors in to the page history is not a good suggestion, people citing the page should be able to identify the correct authors for copyright and attribution purposes.

Another possibility is to use the same systems as on watchlist. Special:EditWatchlist and Special:EditWatchlist/raw allow users to add or remove pages from their watchlist. It would cover T66090: Allow "article-linked" notifications for pages in a user defined list as well.

A design integrating this option has already been proposed:

Not only is that the third (at least) time in this thread that Special:EditWatchlist and Special:EditWatchlist/raw have been mentioned, it was also in the opening comment of T143809 which was closed as a duplicate of this task in 2016. The other solutions mentioned in the past day are also not new.

Whatever is holding up the implementation of this much-requested feature it is not a lack of realistic UX integration possibilities.

I'd think there isn't much of a use case for pages you do want to get page link notices for but do not want on your watchlist.

So if page link notices are restricted to pages that are on your watchlist, I'd think that would help? (it could even be made into a preference if there actually is a use case) While this isn't the ultimate solution as for example @Quiddity mentioned because you may want to watchlist a page but don't want its page link notices, this would alleviate the pain for users who are getting spammed to death by a single page they deeply regret ever creating that ended up in a navbox.

I'm guessing this would be the simplest option to implement?

I definitely don't want link notices for every page on my watchlist - e,g, I have many policy pages on my watchlist but I don't want to get spammed by links to them. Getting link notices for pages not on your watchlist is probably rarer, but I wouldn't discount a desire for it.

I definitely don't want link notices for every page on my watchlist - e,g, I have many policy pages on my watchlist but I don't want to get spammed by links to them. Getting link notices for pages not on your watchlist is probably rarer, but I wouldn't discount a desire for it.

No, I mean you would have to be both the page creator and have the page watchlisted in order to receive page link notices.

Whatever is holding up the implementation of this much-requested feature it is not a lack of realistic UX integration possibilities.

I agree that there are many nice UX possibilities proposed here but as someone who might work on this with pretty limited time (or for any other developer interested in this), it would be really nice to see the phab task description updated with a consensus on exactly what to implement.

I agree that there are many nice UX possibilities proposed here but as someone who might work on this with pretty limited time (or for any other developer interested in this), it would be really nice to see the phab task description updated with a consensus on exactly what to implement.

I think the consensus would be that any solution is better than none! As a dev, you're the one with the best idea of what can be achieved in a short/feasible time. If you think multiple options are possible to be implemented in the time you have to spare (thank you!), let us know which ones and we can rapidly discuss further.

PamD added a comment.Fri, Nov 8, 12:23 AM

A simple interface in Preferences:Notifications, like the "mute user" input box, would be fine: just a box labelled "suppress link notifications for these page(s)" and the ability to list one or more page. Or, as Quiddity suggests, any other workable interface to get the same result.

Agree with the anything is better - but If you want a direction, I'd section @PamD 's idea. Putting it in (Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-echo) would put it near the other similar control, perhaps "Muted pages". Note, since this area looks integrated with global pages, you may need to store the entire page value in there (e.g. :w:en:Project:Pagename) (as opposed to "users" that are already global things)

Ainali added a comment.Fri, Nov 8, 7:26 AM

I would also suggest starting with a simple input box like the "Mute user" one on the notifications tab. And put it on the same tab as well to keep everything together.