"VE > Page Settings > Languages" functionality expected where ULS' "Language Settings" cog is
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Description

this-does-not-edit-languagses

languages should be editable out of a link besides languages. see attachment for a wheel which opens something else, on top of languages. clicking below drops you into wikidata. to really edit the languages one has to go to page settings! very confusing.


Version: unspecified
Severity: enhancement

Attached:

bzimport added a subscriber: Unknown Object (MLST).
bzimport set Reference to bz52383.
ThurnerRupert created this task.Via LegacyAug 1 2013, 10:58 AM
Aklapper added a comment.Via ConduitAug 1 2013, 11:06 AM

Why would you want to edit languages, in order to understand the problem that you report here? To add links to articles with the same topic in other languages? That is exactly what Wikidata is for.

With regard to the wheel "which opens something else", this is part of your language and input text settings.
See http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:ULS_Usability_testing_summary.pdf for the Usability tests that led to this design.

to really edit the languages one has to go to page settings!

I cannot find anything called "Page Settings" on for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin . Please provide exact steps to reproduce.

ThurnerRupert added a comment.Via ConduitAug 1 2013, 1:46 PM

page settings at the right

Attached:

ThurnerRupert added a comment.Via ConduitAug 1 2013, 1:49 PM

wikidata at the bottom

attached page settings at the right, with languages. and wikidata at the bottom. and i see, you do not know this beast as well and do _not_ expect the language code there. just remove this language link code and all people are happier.

Attached:

Aklapper added a comment.Via ConduitAug 1 2013, 7:00 PM

i see, you do not know this beast as well

I admit I don't know every single option of software running on Wikimedia servers by heart, plus sometimes bug reporters paraphrase things. That's why I appreciate good steps to reproduce to understand the problems that you're facing.

Now that I can reproduce I agree that it's slightly confusing.
However the bug summary does not describe the problem but one potential solution, hence changing the bug summary to:
"VE > Page Settings > Languages" functionality expected where ULS' "Language Settings" cog is

and all people are happier.

On a general note: If you have not run a survey in your neighborhood and beyond (as other neighborhoods might have different needs and expectations), generalizations feel like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WEASEL and might diminish the impact & interest in your suggestions how to improve Wikimedia, which would be a pity.

Jdforrester-WMF added a comment.Via ConduitAug 1 2013, 7:09 PM

Being able to edit language links is bug 52105 (specifically, for Wikidata ones). This would replace the current hacky gadget.

The other part of this bug (about the cog not letting you change settings of other languages) would be an issue with ULS, not VisualEditor, I think?

ThurnerRupert added a comment.Via ConduitAug 1 2013, 10:59 PM

james, bug 52105 is the exact opposite of the suggestion here. the visual editor team should, imo, leave the hacky gadget, or improve the hacky gadget with something which is not called hacky any more.

and, _remove_ the code to edit language links from the already complicated VE.

Jdforrester-WMF added a comment.Via ConduitAug 2 2013, 12:04 AM

(In reply to comment #6)

_remove_ the code to edit language links from the already complicated VE.

There is no code to edit language links in VisualEditor. What are you talking about?

ThurnerRupert added a comment.Via ConduitAug 2 2013, 12:20 PM

oh, you are right, it is just code to parse and display it in page settings *blush*, sorry for confusion. coming back to the original suggestion: why not improve the hacky gadget in the frame of the VE project, instead of including it in the VE?

the "about the cog not letting you change settings of other languages" and "ULS" i did not understand. what would you mean by this?

Aklapper added a comment.Via ConduitAug 2 2013, 5:55 PM

"about the cog not letting you change settings of other languages" refers to the small wheel symbol in the side bar close to "Languages".
It is created by the MediaWiki extension "UniversalLanguageSelector" (ULS) so that would be the codebase to change for that aspect, not VE's code.

Jdforrester-WMF added a comment.Via ConduitAug 2 2013, 9:46 PM

(In reply to comment #8)

oh, you are right, it is just code to parse and display it in page settings
*blush*, sorry for confusion. coming back to the original suggestion: why not
improve the hacky gadget in the frame of the VE project, instead of including
it in the VE?

The hacky gadget, as I recall:

  • Doesn't let you set non-Wikidata language links (as needed on non-Wikipedia wikis)
  • Doesn't let you set local language links to over-ride the ones from Wikidata (as needed on Wikipedia sometimes e.g. for [[Maggie Simpson]])
  • Doesn't let you change/remove other languages' links without making you leave the site and going to Wikidata to use the tools there
  • Doesn't let you create new Wikidata entities for the page
  • Is based on local code that may differ between wikis (making VisualEditor work differently in different places)

We agreed with the Wikidata team a few months ago that replacing this was a worthwhile thing to do.

Incidentally, on the wider point, we're very keen to start moving away from editing being a monolithic block of actions that have to take place together, and instead letting users "curate" quickly - whether that's changing categories, language links, workflow action items (like "needs wikifying" or "nominate for deletion") or other tasks - without having to enter the editor.

HOWEVER, that's not really the point of this bug, is it?

ThurnerRupert added a comment.Via ConduitAug 2 2013, 10:29 PM

my english is not good enough to understand the "incidentally, ..." paragraph. what does that mean in terms of coding?

Jdforrester-WMF added a comment.Via ConduitAug 2 2013, 11:24 PM

(In reply to comment #11)

my english is not good enough to understand the "incidentally, ..."
paragraph. what does that mean in terms of coding?

We may write more code to let you use bits of VisualEditor (like the dialogs) outside of the editor.

Jdforrester-WMF added a comment.Via ConduitAug 26 2013, 4:27 PM

Sorry, I meant to move this to ULS (as it's mostly a ULS design question) when it was filed some weeks ago.

Amire80 added a comment.Via ConduitMar 21 2014, 10:41 AM

This is generally a valid feature request, and this is something that ULS and VE developers should consider some time in the not-so-far future.

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