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In the CC field, Phabricator should link to the list of project members and watchers
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Description

I had reported tasks in phabricator.org project, the uploadwizard project, and a few others. In all cases, by default, only Aklapper is shown on CC. I know that some people are watching the project, though. Could we show them, for the sake of task reporters understanding what's going on?

I.e. "CC: Aklapper, Gryllida, and 45 other people watching this project" where these 45 people are an URL for viewing them. (This is public information, it is exposed in email and in "members"+"watchers" fields on https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/mediawiki-extensions-uploadwizard/)

Event Timeline

Gryllida raised the priority of this task from to Needs Triage.
Gryllida updated the task description. (Show Details)
Gryllida changed Security from none to None.
Gryllida added subscribers: Aklapper, Gryllida.
Qgil triaged this task as Low priority.Dec 15 2014, 10:42 PM
Qgil subscribed.

This is more complex than it sounds.

Project watchers get notifications while they are watching, and they stop receiving them when they stop watching. If we add them to CC, they will be tied to the tasks where they are CCed until they unsubscribe manually. If we don't subscribe them, only mention them, then we might be creating the wrong expectations, because watchers are not subscribers.

Then still the list will need to be kept up to date during the life of the task. How many watchers had the project when the task was created? How many will receive a notification to my comment posted four years later? Which number to show?

Then there is also the question of a task associated with several projects, having to merge the list of all names.

Projects can be CCed, which means that members of that project will receive the notifications as well.

For what is worth, there are also Herald rules (T360), which are private, which can send notifications about events to users not being subscribed.

Too complex and too much work to presenting a number that, at the end, doesn't bring much. If you want to be sure that a person or a team is following a specific task, CCing them is better.

I don't think upstream is going to be interested in this feature. Proposing to decline this task.

I think this is about simply linking to the list of project members and giving the current number of them. Rather than adding each one to CC.

I know that some people are watching the project, though. Could we show them, for the sake of task reporters understanding what's going on?

Can you elaborate on "understanding what's going on" and why you assume that something actually is going on? :D
I understand that people feel better if they see a random other person subscribed to an issue and it is also more likely that a comment is read by a random other person when there are 100 subscribers instead of zero.
Still I think it is a wrong assumption to expect that subscribers actually read all their notifications. I'm CCed on everything but I don't read everything (due to my local mail filters).

So if it was only about "I feel better if some random person is on the CC list and hence receives a notification" I'd rather prefer to not expose the CC list at all for the reason given above.
But there's also the valid case "I want to make sure that a specific person receives a notification by making sure the person is on the CC list" which is my only reason why a visible CC list is actually useful. But that's unrelated to whether that person watches the project or not anyway.

I think this is about simply linking to the list of project members and giving the current number of them. Rather than adding each one to CC.

This quote from one of the comments above is correct. I am not suggesting to add all project watchers to CC manually.

All I am suggesting is to show a "and NNN other people watching the projects" phrase in the web interface, which links to an accumulated list of watchers of any projects the task belongs to. Nothing would change in terms of how mail is delivered, this is only a request to have the interface display the current situation without altering it.

Project members and watchers are different concepts. Relating these users with a CC field can be misleading.

If the user wants to have an idea about who will be notified about a change in a specific task, they can click the project button(s) and see by themselves.

I don't think upstream will accept this idea, but I would be wrong.

Project members and watchers are different concepts.

I didn't even mention members. I only mentioned watchers, who are listed at the bottom of emails. :-) Here is the footer of the email I got for your comment:

To: Qgil
Cc: Aklapper, Gryllida, Krenair, Qgil, jeremyb

jeremyb is on this list only because they are watching the project. What I'm suggesting is in the middle somewhere:

A)show only task CCwhat the web interface currently does
B)show task CC and a "N others" link, linking to a list of watcherswhat I'm suggesting for the web interface to do
C)show them all as CC, regardless of whether they're on task CC or project watcherswhat the email currently appears to do

Relating these users with a CC field can be misleading.

Depends on the implementation, really. What I do find undoubtfully misleading, though, is listing only me and Aklapper on the CC field -- this way, I get a feeling that Aklapper might be

- my main point of contact for this taskfalse (project watchers are the ones who know the project)
- the primary decision makerfalse (project watchers are especially the ones who decide on the fate of the task)
- the person to hand the task into the hands of correct peopleonly partially true, because, if I added a correct project when reporting, then the task already is watched by the correct people -- which I don't see (it is a click and a thorough read away)

While I appreciate Aklapper sitting in such prominent place and volunteering to take requests from people who file new tasks, and to triage them, I feel that "a click and an attentive read away" (with most users not even knowing that project watchers exist, and assuming they don't) is too much effort for learning who really is watching the task.

I get a feeling that Aklapper might be

Heh. Sorry, but I am just subscribed to your task. That's all, and that's why the field is called "Subscribers". :D

Qgil lowered the priority of this task from Low to Lowest.Dec 23 2014, 7:19 PM

I'm still convinced that this request is not helpful for "task reporters understanding what's going on". As @Aklapper has explained, showing more names and higher numbers might make reporters feel better, but that doesn't help reporters understanding what is really going on.

I have checked the[[ https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/search/query/UzFmeas4cuoc/#R | tasks that @Gryllida created and associated to the UploadWizard project ]]. They received a quick first triage, and now they seem to be in more or less stable situations now, with status and priority that probably reflects the understanding of the UW maintainers. This is what matters to understand what is going on.

I expect a similar discussion if we propose this feature upstream. If someone else wants to try, please go ahead and report back. Otherwise, I propose to decline this task.

Qgil claimed this task.