Hi @aborrero, I was getting ready to forward your email announcement from the Cloud list to the WIkisource list, but I see a version discrepancy. Your email says that the new version is 4.1.1, but in your post above you say that the version is 4.1.0. Stashbot appears to refer to 4.1.1-2~bpo9+1. Which version number is correct?

Added to the task description a reference to https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_comment/Mobile_web_version_of_the_Meta_main_page, which I started without knowing that someone else was working on the same issue.

I think that it's fine to mirror mailing list content into Space so long as the policies for Space are not enforced on mailing list content.

Thanks for the information, everyone.

I'll clarify one point. I'm aware that the archives show the emails in plain text. The bug is not with the archives. The bug is with how the email was handled between the time that it was sent by Clovermoss and by the time that I received the copy that was processed by Mailman.

For reference, see the file history of https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_Caf%C3%A9_logo_in_plain_SVG_format.svg, and compare the rendering of the first version of the file to https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_Caf%C3%A9_logo_in_plain_PNG_format.png.

Does this bug affect emergency@ or legal@? In any case if this is delaying emails to oversighters then I think that UBN priority is appropriate, and I am raising the priority accordingly.

Under the current circumstances of Wikimedia Space, I oppose integrating the mailing lists into Wikimedia Space, particularly 1. extending WMF's current policies for Wikimedia Space to include mailing list content and 2. giving WMF staff more authority to control mailing list content. If the policies and governance of Wikimedia Space were much more under the direct control of the community and the policies for Space were set by the community instead of by WMF then I would be more likely to support integrating mailing lists into Wikimedia Space.

I checked the delays for a few emails that I get from non-WMF mailing lists, and the maximum delay that I saw was under 4 minutes, so I think that there is likely a bug on WMF's end and I'm changing the task subtype for this Phab task to "Bug Report".

I can't access the edit filter that MusikAnimal mentioned and I have little knowledge about edit filters but I would guess that users who have been granted access to private data could set up edit filters that take into account whether a user is running on a mobile interface.

In T234801#5563947, @Xaosflux wrote:

Oh certainly post it at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical) please

In T235107#5561612, @Xaosflux wrote:

@MusikAnimal I don't think the potential privacy concern follows to the use cases where an editor uses a custom editing tool to make their edits - in those cases the editor is purposefully asserting the tag with their edits.

A user's hardware can be strongly inferred by the mobile tags. Mobile tags or the lack of them can potentially be revealing about a user's location and the range of hardware which the user can access. I don't think that there's a good reason for any of the mobile tags to be public. I'm OK with allowing checkusers to have access to this type of information which could be useful in identifying vandals or sockpuppets, but not the general public.

Including tags on ENWP and Commons, there are tags for "ios app edit", "mobile app edit", "android app edit", "mobile web edit", and "advanced mobile web edit". I would remove all of those from public visibility.

I don't like having tags be public which can be used to strongly infer anything about a user's hardware. I support the removal of those tags from public view.

This lack of the logs accounting for page moves surprised me. Some discussion at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:2I/Borisov#Page_view_log_for_this_article.

Thank you for the quick response.

In T225041#5236008, @Aklapper wrote:

The comment has no signature identifying the user or providing a link to their user page, hence no notification was sent. That is expected and documented behavior.

@Aklapper thank you for the update. I think that asking whether there have been any changes, after a suitable period of time has passed, is fine. In addition to prompting people to update Phabricator with relevant info that they can share, this helps to flag tasks which may have stalled.

Hi Andre, while I believe that while it's okay and good for you to include your opinion, I don't think that you should decline bugs that aren't clearly junk, especially because you at most speak for WMF and certainly not for the community. You exceeded your authority by declining this bug in that manner.

Any updates about this?

Bumping up after the holiday.

Aha. I thought that all accounts were supposed to exist on Meta, but I guess not.

I sent an email to the Education list admins to request that they comment in this ticket in response to the questions above.

For this email:

The problem with spoofed email addresses is happening again, this time on the Education mailing list.

I hit this same bug today. It affected me when using the mobile interface and when logging into *.wikimedia.org. I was able to log into ENWP, then navigate to meta.wikimedia.org, then switch to the desktop interface. That sequence let me log into Meta successfully.

In addition to technical security mitigation and investigation, I hope that WMF Legal is involved in this matter, perhaps on one or more restricted Phab task(s). Feel free to revert my tagging of WMF-Legal on this task if someone with relevant knowledge thinks that the tag is unnecessary.

@Jonas I am a little lost here, perhaps partly because I'm insufficiently familiar with WMF Analytics infrastructure, but it's unclear to me from this request exactly what you are trying to accomplish. Could you describe what your goals are for your SQL and SPARK queries?

@JAllemandou OK, but in the process of trying to internationalize the numbering system you confused this native English speaker. :) I request that this system of abbreviations be prominently displayed on any page in Wikistats 2.0 where it is used, with translations made available for every language in which Wikimedia wikis exist via a drop-down or other selection system.

For the record, I am waiting for an email response from WMF Legal about this issue.

Changing status to reflect that this is declined as a duplicate.

*editing my comment* Whoops, I thought you closed this as *invalid* rather than *duplicate*. I agree that it is a duplicate. I will re-close.

I've renamed this task to reflect the nature of the problem and re-opened it.

May I suggest replacing "g" with "b" for this usage? That would be more consistent with the use of "m" for "million", I think.

Thanks for explaining that @JAllemandou, I was thinking that "g" == "grand".

Backup improvements in general would be welcome. Perhaps this should be a subtask of a larger "campaign" regarding backups.

Thanks for linking the history, Anomie. I am re-opening this bug, as I have problems with both of the arguments that were given in 2012 in task T42006 as the reasons for declining the task as invalid, and I am expecting a new 2018 review of this matter from WMF Legal or someone else with the authority to speak for WMF. If WMF re-affirms the previous WMF position on this matter with the same reasoning then I think that a policy change should be considered; the discussion about the policy change would likely happen in a location other than Phabricator.

Thinking about what welcome messages could be provided to users who have an account auto-created for them on a wiki that they visit if the review from WMF Legal or a community policy change results in these user creation logs being made confidential or being fully omitted from logs in the future, perhaps the user could be offered a welcome message that the community could customize and would be displayed to the user privately instead of publicly on the user's talk page.

Can we get an update about the status of this project, please? I am marking this as "stalled" pending an update. Thanks.

@Doc_James perhaps it would be good to make the title of this ticket more general to reflect that the source of the problem is currently unknown and might not be Wiki Ed. What do you think?

I appreciate WMF staff working on this during what I think is supposed to be their winter break. :) Unless I'm misunderstanding something, this ticket is about a technical problem and not a community policy issue, and the source of the technical problem is an open question, so I am changing the status of this ticket back to "open". If someone is eventually able to determine that the source of the problem is from a tool that is currently not tracked on WMF Phabricator then this ticket may be again be closed for that reason.

@RobH thanks for that info. I will email them and ask whether they are active and want to continue to be list admnistrators.

I'm willing to volunteer temporarily, and send an email to the list recruiting new list owners, and after those owners are assigned I can step down.

OK, thanks for the info. I don't recall that discussion, but then again my brain is so full that there's probably a lot of relevant info that I don't remember. I won't lobby for change; I'm in the process of offloading some responsibilities and was planning to unsubscribe from the list when I noticed that the archives are public.

You're welcome. :)

I'm marking this Phab task as resolved for now. Feel free to re-open if necessary.

I think that I've narrowed down the problem to 2 of the spam filters. I have left those set to moderation and the others to discard. You may start to see some spam held for moderation, but hopefully good posts will be moderated instead of rejected by whichever spam filter has been causing good emails to get rejected.

@NSaad Thanks. I looked around the list settings and I don't see anything wrong. Additionally, the list is set to move emails that are filtered into the moderation queue instead of deleting them. If you're OK with leaving me as a list admin for the foreseeable future, I'd like to see what happens when an email goes to the list that gets blocked by a filter rule. The email should go to moderation, and while it's there I'd like to look at it to see if I can figure out what's causing the filter to trigger. Is that OK with you? Also pinging the other list admins @TFlanagan-WMF and @Esh77 to make sure that everyone agrees and knows what to expect. For emphasis: when emails get filtered and go to the moderation queue, please don't delete them or approve them before I look at them, because I want to look at them to try to figure out why messages are being filtered that shouldn't be filtered. Thanks!

@NSaad I haven't encountered this problem in awhile. If you, @TFlanagan-WMF and others are comfortable with appointing me as a list admin, I could spend a few minutes looking around around the list's settings. After I'm done with that, you can remove me from the list of admins or keep me -- either is fine, although if I start to get a lot of admin notifications then I may ask to be removed. One way or another, I hope that the underlying problem with the filter rule issue will get fixed.

Two comments:

My instinct at this time would be to close the list, as it appears to have been abandoned. The last post was from 2014. The list can be re-activated if there is interest.

A note for applicants: if you are interested in this project but would also be willing to work on others, two other projects which I'd very much like to see move forward this year are https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T87598 and https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T91655. Hopefully at least one of those looks interesting to you as well, and hopefully a match can be made with a mentor.

Hi @Ottomata, I am not understanding why this would be low priority. Can you please explain?

@Aklapper and @TTO: today I tried to produce the error again in IE and Edge, and the error did not recur for me in those browsers. I will post here if I encounter the issue again. Note that I did not test Safari, which was also mentioned as a product where this bug occurs.

Source: @Lydia_Pintscher. Licensed under CC-0. See https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:How_to_get_Wikidata_code_review_done.jpg and https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/deed.en