# Nov 28 2020

I do not think it is a good idea to take well known syntax like \[ for the same reason as the other suggestion (searching for \begin{align} etc.) to influence the rendering outside of the math tags. It will never have the same functionality like in LaTeX (switching between text and math mode), therefore it would make the current behavior even more confusing to the editors.

# Feb 19 2020

Regarding the breaking changes, we have:
(1) version histories
(2) current pages where math would not render
(3) current pages where math would render differently

# Feb 18 2020

Spacing in LaTeX is fine, spacing in Mathjax also. We actually do not need to fix spacing, we just have to ensure that the source code that we pass to Mathjax is still correct. The spacing is just one effect those brackets can have, in principle they can change everything, for example "\sin\limits_a^b" is correct, "{\sin}\limits_a^b" does not compile.

The list of functions where the spacing gets wrong with additional braces is everything that is defined like a unary or binary operator because those get a spacing of \medmuskip. If you place them in braces they become a subformula with spacing rules of an ordinary math expression. By default you have block layout in LaTeX where the size of all spaces between letters and words depends on how much needs to fit into a particular line.

# Feb 17 2020

I guess most people know, but just to clarify what I mean with "{\sqrt[{b}]{c}}" not being a real error: In LaTeX it depends on the definition of \sqrt and where it is placed. With the normal definition it removes extra spaces around \sqrt which in this case is not a problem because there would be no extra spacing anyway. In other situations, e.g. for relations like "a\xrightarrow\alpha b" or "a\stackrel\alpha= b" you still get wrong spacing in Wikipedia due to those extra braces.

For the more complex example "\sqrt{[} ..." is a real error. In the simple example "{\sqrt[{b}]{c}}" is only hard to read, not a real error. Still, if the example is more complex, keeping spaces and newlines is even more important. For comparison: In C++ you can also remove newlines, scramble white-spaces, add unnecessary scopes and rename variables such that the output is still correct, but not human-readable anymore.

# Feb 15 2020

I lost you. Are you saying it should fail or it should not?

yes, it should fail and if it renders it should render different.

Debenben added a comment to T245343: texvcjs should not replace $\omicron$ with $\mathrm{o}$ .

@Physikerwelt \Omicron being upright is fine, see https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/119248.

# Feb 10 2020

@Physikerwelt Thank you very much for creating the pull request, it is definitely a very good fist step in the right direction. I guess nobody really cares about the name of the category, we could simply use "Pages that use a deprecated format of the math tags" in analogy to the chem tracking category. I am really happy with the pull request and surprised to see how much work this was but at the same time also a bit disappointed because I was hoping for more.

# Feb 8 2020

Replacing \exist with \exists sounds reasonable, it should be no problem. My database dump search found 1302 pages in all projects with \exist. Without the texvc changes there might be other things creating problems which we are not aware of and could be fixed with a bot, so I would like to wait for the error categories such that we do not need to edit pages twice.

# Dec 8 2019

Debenben added a comment to T237516: Update to MathJax 3.

@Physikerwelt Thank you for creating this ticket, I think this change is long overdue. What are your thoughts regarding the implementation, in particular:

• does the new rendering mode still need this restbase setup? I am just asking because getting rid of this would greatly reduce the complexity and dependencies, would make it much easier for people to contribute to the development of the math extension and install it on their own servers.
• as far as I know the legacy rendering mode for mhchem package is no longer supported in mathjax 3.0. In my opinion this should not block the transition to the new rendering mode because this change is also long overdue, we just have to keep in mind that it will break some mhchem formulas. I can take care of this and make sure that they will get fixed.
• the new rendering mode should conserve the original LaTeX input, i.e. not have something like texvcjs (T188879). The necessary syntax modfications are done (T197925), except for those that we could not extract from the database dumps. If we want to fix those pages we need the new rendering mode assigning error categories in real time.
• we should take the new rendering mode as an opportunity to discuss getting rid of "default" rendering mode and making the "default" without parameters "inline" (textstyle).

# Dec 1 2019

Debenben committed rTTEX3d009752c6ab: modify submission of crawler scripts (authored by Debenben).
modify submission of crawler scripts

# Jul 20 2019

@Physikerwelt what do you mean with "exist as alias for exist"?

# Jun 26 2019

Debenben added a comment to T195765: Make it possible to query for math values.

It is easy to perform some sanitization or conversion on the original string if you need it.

# May 4 2019

Debenben committed rTTEX595b29fa9b88: prepare en botrun (authored by Debenben).
prepare en botrun

@GregorAlexandru We are actually planning to get rid of the texvcjs so that in the future we can just refer to the MathJax documentation.

# May 3 2019

Debenben committed rTTEX43f782238c5e: add hywiki editsummary and new inputlists (authored by Debenben).
add hywiki editsummary and new inputlists
Debenben committed rTTEXbe778a6e8313: experiments with different search scripts (authored by Debenben).
experiments with different search scripts

# Jan 25 2019

Debenben committed rTTEX7837f9a02318: Merge branch 'templateexpand' (authored by Debenben).
Merge branch 'templateexpand'

# Jan 6 2019

Debenben committed rTTEXc2d91561d0ee: improved crawler (authored by Debenben).
improved crawler

# Jan 2 2019

Debenben committed rTTEX6be0395332e1: +special replacement with {{C}} template (authored by Debenben).
+special replacement with {{C}} template
Debenben committed rTTEX3a88d6cdfe5c: Merge branch 'master' into templateexpand (authored by Debenben).
Merge branch 'master' into templateexpand

# Dec 30 2018

Debenben committed rTTEX5776657e88ff: Merge branch 'master' into templateexpand (authored by Debenben).
Merge branch 'master' into templateexpand

# Dec 28 2018

Debenben committed rTTEX117ab689a123: Merge branch 'master' into templateexpand (authored by Debenben).
Merge branch 'master' into templateexpand

# Dec 27 2018

Debenben added a comment to T197925: Create a bot to replace deprecated math syntax .

I put some thoughts into the problem of replacing math generated by templates like in https://de.wikiversity.org/wiki/Kommutative_Ringtheorie/Algebra-Homomorphismus_%C3%BCber_Ring/Definition where $K$ is produced with a source code

Debenben committed rTTEX8cca2b956d11: Merge branch 'master' into templateexpand (authored by Debenben).
Merge branch 'master' into templateexpand

# Dec 24 2018

Debenben committed rTTEX6128b30b4911: Merge branch 'master' into templateexpand (authored by Debenben).
Merge branch 'master' into templateexpand
Debenben committed rTTEXeb91b755217d: add comparison of tempate text (authored by Debenben).

# Dec 23 2018

Debenben committed rTTEXcf2b2c64402a: disable saving for testing (authored by Debenben).
disable saving for testing
Debenben committed rTTEXa122ef0eb131: test templatesearch (authored by Debenben).
test templatesearch
Debenben committed rTTEXe212332b0570: Merge branch 'master' into templateexpand (authored by Debenben).
Merge branch 'master' into templateexpand

# Dec 21 2018

@SalixAlba We have to change our algorithms to look for math tags. dewikiversity is using {{#tag: math}} via https://de.wikiversity.org/wiki/Vorlage:Math on more than 18 000 pages.

# Dec 11 2018

Addendum: Another reason for a block formula is of course if the formula requires too much vertical space to fit into a normally spaced line

@Izno I do not know what the best way of implementing it in the extension is, but from an author point of view both are treated equally as part of a sentence and there is no difference between inline and block formula except for the size of the equation.

# Dec 7 2018

Or with T209148 in mind, why not disable lazy loading for math "images" completely? After all they are not images, but part of the text.

Debenben added a project to T211432: chem tags should use the same rendering options as math: Math.
Debenben changed the status of T139855: Fix content with broken path integrals from Resolved to Declined.
Debenben added a comment to T182127: Additional math symbols for oriented integrals.

If a symbol people need is missing or looks ugly, they will try to rewrite equations to make it work without the symbol or use some workarounds, e.g. in this case probably something like \int_C and then specify what C means. Those line integrals are common in complex analysis (residue theorem) and hence for example also in electrodynamics, I would estimate the number of articles where they could be used to more than 100 on enwiki.

Debenben updated the task description for T182127: Additional math symbols for oriented integrals.
Debenben closed T139855: Fix content with broken path integrals as Resolved.

I think people do not want to use \oiint or \oiiint because the integral symbol looks bad, they will prefer workarounds if they look better in their setup. It is probably not the biggest problem, but I would only consider the integrals in T182127 done, if they actually produce a rendering that is not ugly. I will close this task because I think it does not help.

# Nov 16 2018

Debenben added a comment to T197925: Create a bot to replace deprecated math syntax .

@SalixAlba I pushed a commit that should fix it

Debenben committed rTTEXddf365ecd328: fix issue with nowiki tags (authored by Debenben).
fix issue with nowiki tags
Debenben committed rTTEXfff384e374f4: test nowiki issue (authored by Debenben).
test nowiki issue

# Nov 14 2018

Debenben added a comment to T197925: Create a bot to replace deprecated math syntax .

@SalixAlba thanks for catching that. This is something we overlooked:

Debenben committed rTTEX2484341191db: +rowiki editmessage (authored by Debenben).
+rowiki editmessage
Debenben committed rTTEXdc836ffec735: +hewiki logs (authored by Debenben).
+hewiki logs

# Nov 12 2018

Debenben committed rTTEXfdfcd8550dd6: +he translation (authored by eranroz).
+he translation

# Nov 11 2018

Debenben added a member for Math: Debenben.
Debenben updated the task description for T166369: Migrate old Math options to current ones or delete them from the database.

We really need an option that covers all use-cases (especially because you have to login to get to the options) but currently we don't and these options are very helpful for debugging e.g. T194768 so they should stay for now.

I think this was a problem of MathML and is fixed in newer firefox versions.

Debenben closed T132367: Latex renders with excessive height on firefox as Resolved.

I think this was a problem of MathML and is fixed in newer firefox versions.

Debenben added a comment to T29574: PDF export: Use LaTeX formulas instead of inline images.

@ovasileva I just created a pdf of https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satz_des_Pythagoras and half of it is not shown at all and the other half still looks horrible:

Debenben closed T2798: Many character sets don't work in texvc as Resolved.

The caracters probably still look bad, but there should not be any errors anymore since png is also using MathJax now

Debenben closed T2798: Many character sets don't work in texvc, a subtask of T4458: Localized TeX environment, as Resolved.

the rendering of Malayalam is still not very good, but there is no error anymore, since the png is created from the svg images now

Debenben moved T188879: Remove texvc from Incoming to Next-up on the Math board.
Debenben closed T136931: texvc vs Mathoid parsing differences as Resolved.

should be resolved since png is also using MathJax now

Debenben moved T197925: Create a bot to replace deprecated math syntax from Incoming to Doing on the Math board.

# Nov 10 2018

Debenben committed rTTEXf59e49d0caa3: remove old inputlists (authored by Debenben).
remove old inputlists

# Nov 9 2018

Debenben committed rTTEX4ea60664e6dc: +zhwiki editmessage and logs (authored by Debenben).
+zhwiki editmessage and logs

@Debenben what browsers those screenshots done with? Such a bad rendering shouldn't happen with the current solution.

# Nov 7 2018

@Physikerwelt For example in the mobile view:

# Nov 5 2018

The custom "Wikipedia syntax" suggested here would be a terrible idea. We are having enough trouble with non-standard LaTeX syntax already. At times, especially with mhchem or optional arguments (which use square brackets) it seems random, how an equation renders and if not what kind of error message you get. Even as an experienced mediawiki-user you can spend hours trying to find out where those strange error messages come from and how to fix them.

# Nov 4 2018

Debenben committed rTTEX5ba4bc2539f4: +arwiki editmessage and logs (authored by Debenben).
+arwiki editmessage and logs
Debenben committed rTTEXd0b19e5029ae: +arwiki editmessage and logs (authored by Debenben).
+arwiki editmessage and logs

# Nov 2 2018

What is currently being done is delivering the same static svg images to everyone. What I propose is to do the final rendering client-side like in normal MathJax, so that e.g.

@Pkra About inlining SVG: Maybe you are right and in principle SVG could become a better solution than HTML. I don't like the idea of taking the current system and just removing the image tags because this is not enough to solve those problems. The most probable case is that we don't have enough manpower to actually do the things that "might be doable" and "require a bit of work" and the result is that we are stuck with an over-customized, substandard, unmaintained system forever.

# Nov 1 2018

Debenben committed rTTEX09a4c07c74e3: +inputlists, correct link (authored by Debenben).
Debenben added a comment to T197925: Create a bot to replace deprecated math syntax .

@SalixAlba Thank you for taking care of the botflag on enwiki, feel free to take responsibility and request a botflag on any other project you like.

Debenben updated the task description for T208475: chem equations cut off.

# Oct 30 2018

Debenben committed rTTEXe92f5e402b04: move logs to own directory (authored by Debenben).
move logs to own directory
Debenben committed rTTEXb185a02aea94: plwiki logs (authored by Debenben).
plwiki logs

@Theklan: We are currently discussing some changes to the math extension here: T195861, you are welcome to discuss this issue. Currently the plan is to

1. get a correct rendering like in normal MathJax / LaTeX for all equations, especially mhchem
2. render non-ASCII-characters like Cyrillic letters, äöü etc. properly in all browsers such that \text can be used with all languages that need special characters

As you can see this is a tremendous amount of work, progress is quite slow and everything relies on volunteers. I don't think changing the syntax for existing formulas with commas is feasible and maintaining the current system without additional localization features already overstretches our resources. I think it would be a better idea to just keep using the well-known {,} for decimal comma and make sure that help pages mention this LaTeX hack.

# Oct 23 2018

Debenben committed rTTEX660b1615631b: +plwiki test (authored by Debenben).
+plwiki test

# Oct 7 2018

Debenben committed rTTEX5811c6c744bf: ruwiki editmessage (authored by Debenben).
ruwiki editmessage
Debenben committed rTTEX26ab4b052084: added more initial input lists (authored by Debenben).

# Oct 3 2018

Debenben committed rTTEXfc2300adf1f0: +eswiki editsummary and logs (authored by Debenben).
+eswiki editsummary and logs

# Aug 19 2018

Debenben updated subscribers of T197925: Create a bot to replace deprecated math syntax .

@SalixAlba Thank you for finding the problem with the unmatched math tags and fixing it, also @Framawiki thanks for your pull request.

Debenben committed rTTEX88594539040a: frwiki logfiles (authored by Debenben).
frwiki logfiles
Debenben committed rTTEX0aeb66a5d508: set changed flag (authored by Debenben).
set changed flag
transferred changes from mathwikibot2 into mathwikibot script
Debenben committed rTTEXce82ab45ba8d: Merge branch 'D1087' (authored by Debenben).
Merge branch 'D1087'
Debenben committed rTTEX747376626dba: mathwikibot2 script rejecting nowiki tags (authored by Debenben).
mathwikibot2 script rejecting nowiki tags
Debenben committed rTTEXb0221e7d7b2c: logfiles (authored by Debenben).
logfiles

# Aug 7 2018

I think one has to differentiate: Of course there are large formulas which cannot be broken and need some scrolling mechanism. Most formulas however have a structure like $A=B+C+D$ which you can break almost everywhere if necessary. Wikipedia authors currently have a choice between

• Adding permanent linebreaks or splitting the expression up in smaller chunks which means making it less readable by wasting space on large screens and/or introducing unnecessary artificial names for parts of the sum
• Not adding any linebreaks, making the expression unreadable on small screens or introducing unnecessary scrolling or zooming.
First sentence
:$A$$\;=B$$\;+C${{nowrap|$\;+D$.}}
Next sentence.