@Iflorez +1 to everything you said -- make sense to me.

@Lectrician1 I think the problem, is that this becomes the _main_ link in focus now on the notification, so encourages a behavior that is mostly useful for power users (i.e. people with way too much on their watchlist/content creation history). I would recommend that it not take most of 2/3s of the visible space on the page, consisder how smooth the design of the other notifications is.

As for starting registration for events: 56 days is super generous. I can't think of a situation where folks are registering more than 30 days out (you have to remember most of the "actions" that organizers want people to do are easy to forget about if you don't do it in a timely manner).

We may want to include "which languages do you plan to contribute in?" in that its both technically easy to do (use the language lists from the projects) and will improve the signals that Irene and the P&E dashboard can create in terms of metrics (one of the problems right now is that most of the tracking tools in the movement require prior knowledge of the language someone plans to contribute in). This is unlikely to be common in small events, but international writing contests this is key for tracking.

A good example of this is that there are emerging communities of practice on both Human Rights and Sustainability topic areas which are impossible to map to the ORES models, and don't make sense for WikiProjects as a 1:1 especially as we get into broader multi-community activities.

@ldelench_wmf topic of interest should come later once we start picking topic domains for events themselves -- we need the topic areas to be configurable in a flexible way -- the ORES taxonomy and the WikiProjects are both highly inaccurate and not useful for newcomers, especially when trying to form multilingual, multicultural cross community activities.

So one thing to think about is that most of the new accounts will be created before an event, potentially immediately before registering (won't be the same workflow).

I believe that the standard to include "male, female, non-binary, and other" with an option not to be able to participate. @JStephenson may have more insight on how its being used now.

@ifried am not worried about the edits not coming from those countries: we know that the organizers are there, and they are running events -- especially in DRC, Uganda and Rwanda -- the challenge is often seeing their contributions -- of organized activity in general -- and then also we know that the organizers have some serious efficacy gaps in editing events in SSA (its hard to identify productive & persistent audiences, retaining those audiences is challenging, and leveling them up to the right skills is also challenging). We are also missing some of the most important campaigns for the region so far, WikiLoves Africa, Wiki Loves Women and WikiGap (at least according to the checklist).

Appears to be driving traffic on English now as well: https://pageviews.toolforge.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&range=all-time&pages=Cleopatra

@kzimmerman my partner set up her voice search for her new android phone -- I suspect it has all of the vowels that are common in spanish.

Personally, I would just exclude a few of the namespaces or fork them into a seperate percentage (i.e. % used on Project and User pages): Project space (which is 4?) and user space (which is 2?) Neither of them is supposed to be used for "content" in the browsable sense -- for the GLAM tools, its less of a big deal that they track these secondary uses because the high level metric that most of them want to report is pageviews - but in this case, the usage rate is way more important because of the metric is an indicator of organizing success.

So I am on the Beta app, and it stopped doing this in the most recent update.

@kzimmerman sounds like a good plan -- when should we do that? Do you want to pull aside some time in the next couple weeks?

I keep getting hit by this on multiple tools that I use in my volunteer capacity: it keeps kicking me off outh in my normal workflows with this error:

@EvanProdromou is the new owner of these kinds of conversations: how do you want to capture this?

@Isaac and @bmansurov -- thank you so much this is awesome!

Awesome all -- thanks for this -- really a cool example of collaboration on a targeted topic like this :)

I think that works as long as @Isaac and @bmansurov can integrate it into the tool.

• We are using the campaign WikiGapFinder to tag articles translated when using this tool -- i.e. we pass this tag to the Content Translation which then will make it an edit tag when the article is created. Is that okay? Will you be able to capture this through your dashboards still?

@bmansurov will you be able to track the number of uses during the campaign? It would be interesting to get the stats on effectiveness and usage.

Nevermind, I purged my cache and it appears to be working now.

@bmansurov When I left the language (by choosing espanol instead of svenska), it surfaced non-WikiGAP articles.

In T239220#5694754, @elukey wrote:

In T239220#5694624, @Astinson wrote:

In T239220#5694351, @elukey wrote:

I can see events when hitting https://stream.wikimedia.org/v2/stream/page-links-change, it just take a bit before they are visualized. https://grafana.wikimedia.org/d/000000336/eventstreams?orgId=1&refresh=1m&from=now-30d&to=now shows an increase in usage, we might have some free connection slots issue, but I'd need to investigate more.

@Samwalton9 do you have a metric or something that I can check showing data missing from the 18th? Or was it reported by somebody? (trying to understand the problem sorry)

It was reported to us by Internet Archive, but also effects our tooling as well.

Can you tell me a bit more about your tools and if I can repro in some way? What error do you see?

In T239220#5694351, @elukey wrote:

I can see events when hitting https://stream.wikimedia.org/v2/stream/page-links-change, it just take a bit before they are visualized. https://grafana.wikimedia.org/d/000000336/eventstreams?orgId=1&refresh=1m&from=now-30d&to=now shows an increase in usage, we might have some free connection slots issue, but I'd need to investigate more.

@Samwalton9 do you have a metric or something that I can check showing data missing from the 18th? Or was it reported by somebody? (trying to understand the problem sorry)

yeah, so I start typing, and try to select one of the options: but it opens a new tab. I am on Android devices, editing in Chrome, asking for the desktop version of the site so that I can edit the Structured Data -- in particular I would like to be able to do AC/DC while watching tv, while using a tablet :P

@Maximilianklein we are building a prototype with @Slaporte at the WikiConference North America Hackathon: would be happy to workshop it there with you all? Are you going?

@Mvolz this should be closed right?

Adding a few more people who might have ideas on applications or needs: @Fuzheado, @Multichill @SandraF_WMF @Lokal_Profil @Yarl

In T231891#5473188, @Magnus wrote:

Another idea came to me:
What is it's not just "page lists", but any (general, of one of pre-defined types) tables?
One table type would be "page title/page namespace", giving us the above lists.
Others could be, say, Mix'n'match catalogs ("external ID/url/name/description/instance of").

Hey all, so I wrote a requirement for something that could be a rewrite of the Monumental software by @Yarl and @Slaporte. I have been shopping around the idea, and there is a fair bit of interest for a "missing wiki women" type list building do: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LtBujK6kARbwxUzDyF6hpv445rJwk7Ka7rAlf7e9USg/edit -- I would be happy to talk with folks about it.

Yeah, you should be able to use one of the JPG preview files which can be served from each ".tif" file -- that is what the thumbnails on Wikipedia and other Wikimedia Projects are. @Keegan do you know who would know/where to look?

In T231891#5467967, @Magnus wrote:

Started some design notes of such a product: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Gulp

In T231891#5467967, @Magnus wrote:

Started some design notes of such a product: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Gulp

In T231891#5463411, @LucasWerkmeister wrote:

That said, only ~3½% of piles are that large:

lucaswerkmeister@tools-sgebastion-07:~$ find /data/project/shared/pagepile/ -type f -printf '%s\n' | awk '{ if ($1 >= (2048*1024)) big++; else small++; } END { print small, big; }'
18783 668

(Though of course the SQLite file size is only an approximation of the corresponding wiki page size, especially as we haven’t decided on any particular format yet.)

In T231891#5463375, @LucasWerkmeister wrote:

Moreover pagepiles are static -- which means that they only output at one point, but the options for updating it mean you have to "regenerate" the list as a new output, even if its just an extension of the previous list (there is not "list history" so to speak -- instead each pile is a separate independent object). This means that "list owners" can't lean on these lists too update multiple other locations -- instead you have to recreate the list and manually update its use elsewhere. This kind of application is partially being solve by tools like Listeria, but that is entirely dependent on the Wikidata Query Service, but that only includes a subset of the criteria that you might use to form a list (with a tools like PattyPan, Quarry or Manual work).

Technically, anyone with Toolforge shell access can update a PagePile, I believe – they’re world-writable SQLite files. In the PHP API, this seems to be somewhat intended – you first create a fresh pile and then fill it with data, and nothing stops you from filling it with more data later. That doesn’t seem to be exposed through the web API, though.

---

I wonder if we need/want external storage for this at all. Could we simply store a list of pages on some wiki, either in Wikitext or as JSON? This gives us a history, a talk page, rate limiting, patrolling, authenticated editing (OAuth), and probably more, almost for free.

ping @Samwalton9 @Ramsey-WMF @SandraF_WMF @LucasWerkmeister @Amire80

Thanks all!

In T207395#4750333, @Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE wrote:

I think I forgot that we have more completions than just for item and property labels, sorry… we have several other suggestions as well, including SELECT * WHERE { } for a blank query, so I guess that could be useful after all.

I guess for me the assumption that someone who answers the first part of the prompt "Input a SPARQL query" -- still might not know where to start, even if they are loosely familiar with SPARQL. Having a hint in the first screen that "ctrl+space can give you hints on where to start" would be super useful. I have found, in teaching sparql, its super useful to start from nothing -- so either having a blank filled out wrapper like SELECT ?item WHERE {?item } or having the ctrl+space hint which does that is the optimal thing for reminding someone who hasn't touched it in a while. Teaching from examples, in my experience, has only been good for demonstrating the power of Queries -- not for teaching folks how to actually use queries. And this interface is, in its very nature, assuming a bit of technical literacy -- so showing the hint early wouldn't hurt. It would be very different if we found that it confused brand new users -- but then maybe we need some type of guided tour hinting that folks should try out the examples menu.

@Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE it should probably appear before the : toast when there is an entirely blank screen -- otherwise completely new contributors to the tool get no hint on "where to start". The other option could be some type of guided tutorial popup when the screen is blank.

@TheDJ @Aklapper yeah -- I am not sure -- for me it seems like there should be a way to work around at our level just to make it less messy in the grand scheme of things -- @brion's idea or something similar (like pushing the file prefix elsewhere in the url) would prevent tools looking for file extensions at the end urls from making smart guess. I am not a developer though, and don't have a strong opinion on the how -- just that it creates a usability problem, especially when we are anticipating a largely mobile audience in the future.

The prototype looks really slick! Thanks @Prtksxna

In T205363#4634487, @jmatazzoni wrote:

In T205363#4634458, @Astinson wrote:

Have we thought at all about counting ref tags added? References are a measure of quality of content in some Wikipedias.

That is, I assume, the same as citations? If so, yes, we've debated quite a bit. Counting these would be very desirable but they are not in the metadata. So we would have to parse the wikitext, which is too slow and resource intensive.

Have we thought at all about counting ref tags added? References are a measure of quality of content in some Wikipedias.

In T205363#4634179, @MusikAnimal wrote:

Words changed during event The net change in words to the page during the event period. Show all numbers with a + sign to indicate direction of change. In our discussions, the point was raised that this calculation may be feasible for some scripts/languages more than others. We will implement for the scripts where we can and leave others for later.
For scripts/languages where this calculation is not feasible, we can either 1) omit the column, which is preferred, or 2) answer=unavailable [@Mooeypoo, should I make a separate ticket to investigate this?]

This is definitely a separate ticket, and I am not sure it's that easy to do with our consideration for loads. This would mean we'll have to parse the diffs and more or less guess about words (using a space delimiter is a good start but is actually not entirely accurate, even in English :)
This is a significant change. I'd reconsider including this in the MVP. Either way, it requires a separate ticket.

Agreed that this will slow things down noticeably. But if we do get to it, I find parsing HTML content to be more exacting in getting word counts of prose, as then it is easier to exclude things like infoboxes and references. We do the same thing in XTools, available via the page/prose API endpoint. The MediaWiki text extracts API does something similar but we do not need content, just numbers.

@Milimetric @Nuria The amazing @Samwalton9 came to my rescue with some scripting and API pulls and got pretty far. I think for the quick and dirty stuff I need right now, that will do for me.

@JAllemandou That is not clear on the labeling of that item -- it says "Sources" which suggests a plural set of projects.

I bet I know why that isn't working: the edit count may not be counting the contributions to the Proofread page extension namespaces?

One consideration might be that the Rightstatements.org community (http://rightsstatements.org/en/) is looking for a reasonable way to modify the need for license like http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en which are domain specific. Instead they would like a general "No Copyright based on X rationale". Perhaps an important stakeholder in this work is the Rightstatements community?

The interface for Crotos (http://zone47.com/crotos/ ) suggests a number of good ways to do this:
*first as someone searches in the search bar, it suggests what properties/statements you might be wanting to interact with based on the frequency within the term
*As you start to get first results, you can browse some core metadata (including creator and depicts) in the down carrot drop menu which become additional facets for interacting with search results (and get displayed near the search bar as check box components).

@hoo thanks!

(in my volunteer capacity): I would think that anyone pinging more than 3, is using the wrong channel for communication -- 5 probably gives enough wiggle room for other collabroations, but is likely to solicit complaints from some of the more active communities (thinking English).

@kaldari & @MaxSem can we talk about how this might be relevant to T123529 at all hands? -- in theory the same filtering strategy for identifying/logging these contacts cc' @Slaporte

Yep, that appears to have worked (ended up doing it in Incognito, to keep from signing out of other stuff).

@Abit You may want to share the Sheet you created a few years back!

@Harej helped set this up for citation hunt, he might have some suggestions.