In T272146#6751209, @Iniquity wrote:

As an idea, in order not to create new forms, we can create a bot. It will check if there is a ping in the previous message, and if not, write in small font: @Username: Hello! Your question has been answered. ~~~~.

I'm afraid more comments from the teams are needed here, as the initial task is too early to complete :)

In T233250#6838015, @Urbanecm_WMF wrote:

@Trizek-WMF is right. [[User:{{subst:#mentor:Martin Urbanec}}|{{subst:#mentor:Martin Urbanec}}]] Hey, this is a test. --~~~~ successfully triggered a ping in beta enwiki for me.

In T274909#6834392, @Trizek-WMF wrote:

Is this checking of the history needed? It's a real question. I mean, if you arrive on the article, and find it wikified or with enough sources, you just remove the banner that was asking for a fix. Personally, I would't check on the history: the article don't need this banner for [reason], I personally don't care about what happen to make this banner superfluous. I just remove it. :)

On many articles this banner was placed by ancient users, or simply no one follows the articles. If we follow newcomers, it usually happens through recent changes.

In T274909#6834392, @Trizek-WMF wrote:

Edits are tagged so that experienced users can come and check if the edits are good quality. If so, they can remove the template.

Plus one more problem in this method, it is impossible to understand from history what task the newcomer was solving

There are too many edits from newcomers, and the experienced editors simply roll them back without removing the template. I can't convince everyone not to do this, we need a way to control simple edits.

In T239234#6834350, @Trizek-WMF wrote:

I think it is safer to have a list of contributions attached to a given mentor. IT would reduce the possibilities of stalking. But I think any next step regarding the creation of a watchlist or list that allows to monitor one's edits beyond the existing tools should be discussed with T&S first.

Hi, tell me plz, will the mentor pinged in this case? :) I just don't remember how the Notifications extension reacts to this syntax.

{{#mentor:Someone}}, hi! How are you? ~~~~

I'll clarify just in case, these are different logos for docker and for default logo (https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki/blob/master/resources/assets/wiki.png)? Or is it the same thing? :)

In T274714#6828484, @Aklapper wrote:

Hmm, it seems that each video shows a "More" link which lists "License" in an "About" popup?

Oh, thanks, it is my fail, Didn't know about this button :)

As the WMF-Legal project tag was added to this task, some general information to avoid wrong expectations:
Please note that public tasks in Wikimedia Phabricator are in general not a place where to expect feedback from the Legal Team of the Wikimedia Foundation due to the scope of the team and/or nature of legal topics. See the project tag description.
Please see https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal for when and how to contact the Legal Team. Thanks!

In T274428#6827175, @alexhollender wrote:

This is not a suggestion of what we should do. It's just meant to show that we can have a floating element that is styled differently than the original proposal. Similarly we could have a non-floating element that is styled in a more subtle way than the current alert.

Thanks for the clarification! I thought in the wrong way :)

In T258005#6826539, @RHo wrote:

In T258005#6826521, @Iniquity wrote:

Thanks for the tasks! :) But this block confuses me in general, is it really necessary?

Ah is your question why we even show this at all? It's to encourage newcomers to add a confirmed email address, so that we have the option to reach them offwiki to re-engage them in participating via an email notification. There's a whole series of tasks related to increasing "emailability" with a longer explanation under this epic T215626, even though you will notice we have not yet determined it necessary to do more messaging to newcomers this way, based on a healthy influx of usage to date.

In T258005#6826475, @RHo wrote:

In T258005#6826208, @Iniquity wrote:

I would like to know why do we always show the user's email address? Is this done on purpose? I just couldn't find a discussion.

Hi @Iniquity - there is already a task T237312 to anonymize the user's email address but has been on the backlog for a while. I've just moved it into the Current sprint board in case we can work on it sooner along with the related task T260780.

I would like to know why do we always show the user's email address? Is this done on purpose? I just couldn't find a discussion.

In T253589#6825923, @Jdrewniak wrote:

Better late than never! Sorry for the (6 month) delay 🤦‍♂️
The patch was non-trivial and I honestly forgot about it, but having reviewed the design, I think it makes sense to have one localized button instead of several random languages at the very bottom.
Thank you!

In T274428#6824272, @RHo wrote:

Yes, and I did also check on the most recent analysis on Growth newcomer's route to the homepage, and the figures on this task T245369#6020173 confirm that a low percentage (0.5-3%) of newcomers across our target wikis click on the usertalk link as their route to the homepage.

Thanks for the link to this analysis! We need to collect such charts in one place :)

In T274428#6822402, @RHo wrote:

In T274428#6821976, @Iniquity wrote:

I'd really like to invite the Growth-Team to a discussion and hear their opinion about reducing the visibility of new message warning. In my opinion, it is already difficult for beginners to understand our system, and the current (floating) proposal is less noticeable than the orange version.

Hi @Iniquity - apologies if it was not clear that my weighing in was in part in my capacity as the Growth team's designer. I completely agree that it is difficult for newcomers to understand how Wikipedia works, including Talk pages, which is why our newcomer homepage experiment was created to provide a clear, welcoming, central place to start. As such, our efforts have been to drive newcomers to the homepage instead with a number of other discovery methods such as adding links to the page after the welcome survey (T222852), guided tour popup banners (T224883), and adding a link on the Special:Contributions page (T227575); rather than the subject of this alert, to drive people to their User talk page.

Our team's notification/alert priorities aside, I want to reiterate my comment above that I don't consider the new floating element design to be reducing the visibility of the message, but about moving it into a place that makes more sense as an alert. Certainly, there is room for visual styling tweaks (e.g., revising the background to use the yellow90 warning colour), but overall new design placement and styling 'elevating' it over the user links is a fairly widely used style of alert/toast notification which I am in favour of at least testing.

I'd really like to invite the Growth-Team to a discussion and hear their opinion about reducing the visibility of new message warning. In my opinion, it is already difficult for beginners to understand our system, and the current proposal is less noticeable than the current version.

I think it's worth adding a title attribute too, for the a tag with the same text.

I think you can close it, since the standard logo has already been returned :)

In T242500#6810706, @SarthakKundra wrote:

Hi @Krinkle . I will like to work on this. Can you provide me a bit of insight as to what should I change? As far as I can see the URL is opening robots.txt. Also I'll appreciate it if you can send the repo link as well. Thanks!

Hello! :) I don't know if this was discussed, but it's worth remembering that not everyone should be given the right to change the templates used.

In T272753#6804636, @MMiller_WMF wrote:

@Iniquity -- we definitely will let you know if we make the change more broadly than just the wikis listed here. We're first going to try it here to see how big of a difference it makes. On Czech Wikipedia, it resulted in about a 30% increase in questions to mentors (you can see the analysis here). We'll see what the impact is on these other wikis for a few weeks before proceeding further.

If you plan to do this for Ruwiki, please ping me. This can be painful for mentors :)

In T185674#6793929, @Krinkle wrote:

What is the semantic value of divs?

Tables represent tabulated data, not all content that needs to be hidden: https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/H51.html

In T270748#6793574, @DannyS712 wrote:

Hmm, except it hasn't been actually "tested" on meta, since it hasn't been deployed there, and the issue isn't with errors, but confusion and redundancy. I guess I'll need to figure out a better explanation myself then

In T270748#6793510, @DannyS712 wrote:

It seems there is some confusion about why this is only being deployed on a single wiki if its a global watchlist (see @Iniquity's question at T260862#6793390 and the subsequent discussion). This should probably be documented well somewhere outside of phabricator, but I'm not quite sure how to phrase it. @Iniquity as someone who was (from what I gather) confused about why this was only being deployed on a single wiki, now that you understand would you be willing to try and explain it in your own words to see if I explained it well?

In T260862#6793424, @DannyS712 wrote:

One of the conditions of the grant that is funding the development of the extension (see [1]) is that "The extension should only be available on Meta."[2] so even if I agree with you, for now there is nothing I can do. I suggest waiting until after its deployed and try it out for a bit, and then reconsider the issue in a few weeks and see if you still feel the same way. Theoretically, the extension could be deployed on multiple wikis, but it would be confusing because

• The settings for the global watchlist, as configured at Special:GlobalWatchlistSettings, would be specific to that wiki, so you might have different displays of the global watchlist with different settings
• The underlying changes are displayed the same, regardless of whether you are viewing them on the wiki they occurred or on a foreign wiki

[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Project/DannyS712/Create_a_global_watchlist_extension
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:Project/DannyS712/Create_a_global_watchlist_extension#Round_1_2020_decision

In T260862#6793394, @DannyS712 wrote:

In T260862#6793390, @Iniquity wrote:

Are there any plans to deploy this watchlist on all wikis?

The way it works is that Special:GlobalWatchlist is available on a single wiki, but on the special page you can view the watchlist for multiple wikis (in this case, any wiki where your SUL account is attached) - you can configure the wikis you want to see at Special:GlobalWatchlistSettings. So no, this will only be deployed on meta, but it only needs to be deployed on a single wiki to be useful, and deploying on multiple would be confusing.

Are there any plans to deploy this watchlist on all wikis?

The double button will be very large for some languages, so the single option is better.

The main idea is:

1. Initially, help pages are more important than impact, since the user has not yet edit anything and has nothing to impact
2. If we remove the mentor to the lower right corner, then I suppose the amount of interactivity will decrease, since it is less noticeable, and part of this block will also disappear
3. After the user already edit something, we need to understand how much the block of impact holds him and how much the emphasis changes if we lower him down
4. Not for this task: I want a tiled interface with the ability to drag and drop objects, possibly through a visual editor

In T270523#6792985, @Trizek-WMF wrote:

So there is nothing wrong there. :D

Yes, I already understood that this is a design move :)

In T270523#6792704, @Trizek-WMF wrote:

I'm not sure: can you scroll down to check the last links? If not, it is a bug. Otherwise, it is the current design.

Everything is fine with the block itself :)

One of the problems, in my opinion, is a bug in the new design, which lowered the help box too low. I associate a large number of similar questions with this.

In T230593#6790613, @Jdrewniak wrote:

hi @Iniquity, as you may have noticed, I nominated this task as a project for Google summer of code. I hope the extra effort will make this task a reality :)
These portals in general suffer from a lack of resourcing at the WMF, which is why they are in the state that they are. However, as on of the (remaining) people who built the Git workflow, I'll be available for code-review and mentoring on this task.

In T185674#6790258, @Krinkle wrote:

Some examples that might be of help:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Collapse
• https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Collapsible_elements/Demo/Simple
• https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Collapsible_elements/Demo/Advanced

Alas, English version of Template:Collapse is made on tables, which is not semantic. And it requires additional code, which is no different from the NavFrame.

I just remembered, I was unable to make the https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Шаблон:Начало_скрытого_блока template purely on mw-collapsible. Unable to create hide/show link in header.

Hello! The main idea why I would like to reassign mentees is that when the mentor leaves, he loses motivation. And his answers may be less friendly than we would like.

In T185674#6760523, @Jdlrobson wrote:

What is the problem statement here? What are we trying to achieve? I don't really understand what this bug report is about. Has anything changed since 2018 that might lead us to want to decline this?

In T258005#6765342, @RHo wrote:

In T258005#6764130, @MMiller_WMF wrote:

@Iniquity -- thanks for your feedback on the design. I'm pinging our team's designer, @RHo, who can explain why we've arranged it the way we have.

In T258005#6750524, @Iniquity wrote:

The current implementation of the page in the new vector looks rather strange.

• Stretched columns
• The help module is not visible at all
• Compressed text on the right side
• Page tab has lost border on the left

Hi @Iniquity - thanks for taking a close look at the page. Regarding the visual design changes on the newcomer homepage layout, these are part of the revised Variant C & D design intended to make the Suggested edits tasks a more prominent focus (more details are on T246533). It was a conscious decision to make the Suggested edits module larger, and the other modules narrower and invariably longer in this new layout. Similarly, the impact module placement is to promote the value of editing. We should be sharing results of how these revised layout variants did in the coming weeks on our team's updates page so please watch that space for an update.

Regarding the lack of left border on the first tab in your screenshot, it's due changes from the Desktop improvements project, where all Special pages on wider screens do not have the LHS border for the first tab. The Reading Web team is accepting feedback on the design on Phab in this task T258277: A friendly place to share your initial reactions to the first release of desktop improvements., where there are already a few comments about this in case you'd like to add your input too.

@Ymblanter can you give us a screenshot, please? :)

For some statistics, to understand the volume of edits from mobile devices in ruwiki for last month (thanks @Q-bit-array):
319 edits from the MentorshipModule
99 edits were from a mobile device
220 edits were from PC

In T220753#6752163, @Etonkovidova wrote:

@Iniquity - I posted a reply on https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:MMiller_(WMF)#Question_from_Iniquity_%2819%3A48%2C_13_January_2021%29 - please check if you got a notification.

Hi :) Yes, we have already found out with @Trizek-WMF that only ordinary pings come through notifications. There are no additional pings.

Re "strange wording" - can you add more details? :)

The problem is described in T272146, The form says that the newscomer will receive a notification, but if the mentor forgets to ping, then there will be no notification.

The second idea is to work with Convenient-Discussions and DiscussionTools projects. They can help remind users to ping participants in certain cases. But don't forget about those who don't use these tools.

As an idea, in order not to create new forms, we can create a bot. It will check if there is a ping in the previous message, and if not, write in small font: @Username: Hello! Your question has been answered. ~~~~.

I added the parent task, but it seems to me that they are the same :)

In T272019#6750880, @RhinosF1 wrote:

Should make it's way everywhere by next Thursday

And if we are already talking in this topic, then it seems to me that the 'help block' should be put above 'your impact'.

The current implementation of the page in the new vector looks rather strange.

In T272095#6750445, @kostajh wrote:

@Iniquity this implementation is from the work done in T258005: Variant C/D: homepage layout changes. As such I think this task should probably be marked Declined, or the comments added as feedback to T258005.