Rename autonym for 'no' from 'norsk bokmål' to 'norsk'

Authored by Fomafix on Mar 9 2017, 8:11 AM.
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Description

Rename autonym for 'no' from 'norsk bokmål' to 'norsk'

  • 'no' is the language code for the macro language Norwegian with the autonym 'norsk'.
  • 'nb' is the language code for the language Norwegian Bokmål with the autonym 'norsk bokmål'.
  • 'nn' is the language code for the language Norwegian Nynorsk with the autonym 'norsk nynorsk'.

'no' falls back to 'nb'.

Change-Id: Ieff4ff4ecdce20ce65a818612af90815121d70d3

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Committed
FomafixApr 15 2017, 9:51 AM
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rMW004ffaa91a28: Make masterPosWait() error clearer
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refs/changes/83/341983/2
ChangeId
Ieff4ff4ecdce20ce65a818612af90815121d70d3
jeblad added a subscriber: jeblad.Aug 20 2017, 9:25 PM
This comment was removed by jeblad.

Bah, I should check the change before I'm complaining… This was the right change, I posted the wrong rant! =)

@Fomafix: Could you please comment on this change (cf. T173602)? This change has caused a lot of uproar, and it would be nice to know what the intentions behind it are. Without e.g. a mapping for 'no' to Bokmål exclusive to the Wikipedia project, the consequences of this change are not acceptable.

@Fomafix: Could you please comment on this change (cf. T173602)? This change has caused a lot of uproar, and it would be nice to know what the intentions behind it are. Without e.g. a mapping for 'no' to Bokmål exclusive to the Wikipedia project, the consequences of this change are not acceptable.

This change just uses the right ISO 639-1 autonym for the language code no for example in https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-personal-i18n

@Fomafix: Could you please comment on this change (cf. T173602)? This change has caused a lot of uproar, and it would be nice to know what the intentions behind it are. Without e.g. a mapping for 'no' to Bokmål exclusive to the Wikipedia project, the consequences of this change are not acceptable.

This change just uses the right ISO 639-1 autonym for the language code no for example in https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-personal-i18n

So, does this particular change not affect the interwiki list - was there another change somewhere else?

Also, why should the macro language be an option when it just falls back to one individual language?

So, does this particular change not affect the interwiki list - was there another change somewhere else?

Do you mean with interwiki list the table in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Interwiki#interwikitable-language?

Also, why should the macro language be an option when it just falls back to one individual language?

Do you mean the user interface selection in the preferences? The codes no and nb deliver the same user interface language. So one of them may be superfluous. There are even more language codes which are redundant. All the deprecated language codes are also listed here and should excluded. I reported this as T118199 and suggested to remove them by removing the entries in Names.php in https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/279087. They can also filtered on an other way.
no is not a deprecated language code but a macro language. I do not really know what to do with a macro language. But they may also excluded like the installer already excludes all deprecated language codes and the extra language codes including no and simple.

Njardarlogar added a comment.EditedAug 28 2017, 10:14 AM

I am thinking of the fact that when you go to an article with an interwiki link to no.wikipedia, like en:Knud Knudsen (linguist), the interwiki list on the left now displays 'norsk' for no.wikipedia instead of 'norsk bokmål', the latter of which it did up to last week.

Do you mean the user interface selection in the preferences? The codes no and nb deliver the same user interface language. So one of them may be superfluous. There are even more language codes which are redundant. All the deprecated language codes are also listed here and should excluded. I reported this as T118199 and suggested to remove them by removing the entries in Names.php in https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/279087. They can also filtered on an other way.
no is not a deprecated language code but a macro language. I do not really know what to do with a macro language. But they may also excluded like the installer already excludes all deprecated language codes and the extra language codes including no and simple.

Yes, the interface language selection that you linked to above. If there is no policy on how macrolanguages are treated in that list, then I'll just note that; though a fallback to one of several individual languages isn't without its issues. Maybe a better solution could be to have pop-up window appear when a user selects a macrolanguage, allowing them to select from a list of available individual languages of the macrolanguage. This way the individual languages will be treated more equally, and going by a macrolanguage code or name is still possible.

I am thinking of the fact that when you go to an article with an interwiki link to no.wikipedia, like en:Knud Knudsen (linguist), the interwiki list on the left now displays 'norsk' for no.wikipedia instead of 'norsk bokmål', the latter of which it did up to last week.

The mapping from the language code no to the language name norsk and from the language code nb to the language name norsk bokmål is part of a standard and should not misused here. In my opinion it is consequent that an interwikilink [[no:Foo]] is displayed as norsk and an interwikilink [[nb:Foo]] is displayed as norsk bokmål. According to the interwiki table both link to https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo. When you want to have norsk bokmål then use the language code nb as interwiki link prefix. This is mainly independent of the hostname no.wikipedia.org and the database name nowiki.

Further discussion about deprecated or redundant language codes in the preferences is off topic here.

The mapping from the language code no to the language name norsk and from the language code nb to the language name norsk bokmål is part of a standard and should not misused here. In my opinion it is consequent that an interwikilink [[no:Foo]] is displayed as norsk and an interwikilink [[nb:Foo]] is displayed as norsk bokmål. According to the interwiki table both link to https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo. When you want to have norsk bokmål then use the language code nb as interwiki link prefix. This is mainly independent of the hostname no.wikipedia.org and the database name nowiki.

In the short term, the exact way that no.wikipedia is once more labelled as 'norsk bokmål' in the interwiki list is not so important to me, just that it actually happens. If the prevailing view is that the list of language codes is too fundamental to introduce this kind of exception (no -> norsk bokmål), then I'd welcome another change that fixes the issue at hand. Now that most interwiki is stored on Wikidata, literally changing [[no:]] to [[nb:]] in links is in the vast majority of cases not possible.

Would forcing Wikidata to store links to nb.wikipedia for no.wikipedia be acceptable? I presume that would introduce its own issues, though maybe not ones that are too bad.

Fomafix added a comment.EditedAug 28 2017, 8:10 PM

Would forcing Wikidata to store links to nb.wikipedia for no.wikipedia be acceptable? I presume that would introduce its own issues, though maybe not ones that are too bad.

As far as I know stores Wikidata for sitelinks the database name (here nowiki) as key and extract the language code with trimming the trailing wiki. Here is a mapping table required. A mapping table can also solve the deprecated or special language codes for other wikis: simplewikien, alswikigsw, zh_yuewikiyue. I reported this as T59706.

Kjetil added a subscriber: Kjetil.Aug 30 2017, 8:54 PM
jhsoby added a subscriber: jhsoby.Sep 1 2017, 10:07 AM
Nsaa added a subscriber: Nsaa.Sep 17 2017, 7:21 PM