When a talk page does not exist, the presentation isn't very welcoming:
The page should encourage users to make the first edit. Something like a big content area that invites users to edit it.
✅ **Approach #1: Extend the empty state experience (T270323) to include talk pages that only contain templates**
-- We'd need to make sure the definition of "empty" does not accidentally include talk pages that are not actually meant to be used for discussions because we wouldn't want to lead people to think they ought to start discussions on talk pages that do not contain any discussions and are not actually intended for hosting discussions. //Perhaps the presence of the `_NONEWSECTION_` magic word appearing on a page is sufficient enough signal to prevent said pages from receiving the empty state experience.//
- //Open questions//
-- [x] How do we decide whether to show an empty state or not?
--- The empty state will appear on talk pages that already exist (read: they contain some content) if both of the following conditions are met:
---- A) The page does **not** contain a signature
---- B) The page does **not** contain a section heading
-- [x] How would we display the empty state on pages that contain some non-discussion content?
--- On desktop, the empty state will appear **beneath** the content already present on the page
--- On mobile, the empty state will appear beneath the page title, as the existing content is currently stored "within" the `About this page` link. //Note: the Editing Team is planning to revise how and where talk page templates, notices, etc. are shown in TICKET (@ppelberg to add once filed).//
**Approach #2: Disable hiding mboxes on talk pages (or all non-content namespaces)**
-- Mboxes usually look awful on mobile, because they were designed on desktop. It’s possible to make them mobile-friendly, but this requires work, and needs to be done by the communities (as mboxes are styled on-wiki).
= Developer notes
The page only appears empty because the contents of the page is marked up as an tmbox which is collapsed into the link "About this page" at the top.
This is how it would look if we removed this handling: