Change Details

This task is about introducing a "container" to help people more easily and quickly recognize talk pages as containing conversations and get a sense for the level of activity happening within these conversations. As part of this task, we will evolve the way section titles are presented on talk pages and introduce new metadata within them to help: 1. Senior Contributors more easily and quickly get a sense for the number of conversations happening on a talk page and level of activity within them 2. Junior Contributors more easily and quickly recognize talk pages as containing conversations. //Note: we think doing this will lead them to *begin* to more clearly see talk pages as places used for communicating with other contributors.// === User Stories //Primary// - **As a Junior Contributor** who is viewing a talk page for the first time, I want to instantly recognize the page as containing conversations, **so that** I can understand talk pages as places to communicate with other people. - **As a Senior Contributor** who is visiting a talk page I haven't visited before/in a while, I want to easily understand the level of activity happening within the conversations on a talk page, **so that** I can decide where to focus my attention. //Secondary// - **As a Senior Contributor** who has developed a set of workflows around how wikitext talk pages are currently presented and function, **I want to** retain access to the features listed below, **so that** I do not need to weigh the loss of existing functionality //against// the addition of new functionality when considering whether to enable topic subscriptions. -- Existing Features: --- Section edit links --- //TBD// === Requirements **Meta** - These changes should be designed and implemented for **desktop** and **mobile** - Topic containers should be designed for, and implemented across, all [talk namespaces](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Namespace): Article Talk, User Talk, Wikipedia Talk, File Talk, MediaWiki talk, Template talk, Help talk, Category talk, Portal talk, etc. **Section title styling** - The section title should be styled [in read mode] in such a way that people recognize it as being different from the section of an article and as the title/beginning of a conversation. **Section title actions** - The section title should contain affordances that enable people to do the following: -- Copy the URL of the specific topic they are viewing --- //Note: this link should be human readable.// -- Subscribe to be notified when other people add new comments to the conversation happening within the boundaries of the section they are viewing. //We'll iterate upon the affordance introduced in T279149.// -- Open the source for the specific section/topic they are viewing so they can edit and/or inspect it **Section title metadata** - The section title should contain the following metadata that help people know the following: -- When the latest comment was posted within the topic. --- [ ] //#TODO: what logic should determine how this time is presented? E.g. When should the number of minutes/hours that have elapsed since the last comment was posted be shown? When should the time the last comment was posted be shown? When should the day and month the comment was posted be shown? When should the day, month and year the last comment was posted be shown?.// -- The total number of comments posted within the topic [vii] -- The total number of unique people who have posted a comment within a topic //Note: the metadata above should reflect the latest state of the topic in as close to real-time as possible.// === Open questions/#todo - [ ] @ppelberg to detail the preference that will need to accompany this new "container" === Done --- === Background //Junior Contributors// People who are new to Wikipedia find it difficult to recognize talk pages as containing conversations and subsequently, how to make sense of and use the pages as the communication tool that they are.[i][ii][iii][iv][v] //Senior Contributors// And people who are experienced editors of Wikipedia find it difficult see the range of topics being discussed on a talk page and the extent to which people are engaging with each of these topics.[vi] === Links - On same pages at **it.wiki** some discussion pages use the [{{Bar7}} template](https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Bar7) to expose meta-actions people can take on the conversation for which the "bar" appears. //See: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bar/2020_12_15#Test_A/B_per_il_tool_di_risposta. // --- i. "Talk pages and their current configuration proved confusing, in part due to the unusual structure. Several users asked “where are the comments?” when first encountering the Talk page, and most had never seen a Talk page before. For these participants, it took more than 4-5 minutes to understand the Talk page itself which was “disorganised” making it “difficult to take part in the discussion.” //via [Understanding and Improving Wikipedia Article Discussion Spaces](http://jodischneider.com/pubs/sac2011.pdf)// ii. When describing what happened after they added a new topic using the existing section=new form, usability test participant said, "It's published in that article or in that first thing." //via [Add topic control usability test](https://app.usertesting.com/c/84caa586-f354-4202-b9a3-5e6733e551a3?note_id=clip-3354719&shared_via=link) // iii. "I'm not exactly sure where exactly the discussion is." //via [Add topic control usability test](https://app.usertesting.com/c/ef7fa984-0833-49d8-bd50-d2cf04ed57a2?note_id=clip-3354732&shared_via=link) // iv. "I have no idea what button. I don't know what it means really to start a new discussion. Because none of this looks like a discussion." //via [Add topic control usability test](https://app.usertesting.com/c/e3dc66f2-951a-4c7b-a1b7-94b8286e2855?note_id=clip-3354806&shared_via=link)// v. "I felt I had to scan the page a lot for what i needed, as different elements didn't really stand out." vi. @Pelagic suggests showing metadata about each section (e.g. the number of comments, the number of participants, when the conversation (read: section) was started, when the conversations was last updated, etc.) | [source](https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Topic:Usulqlnsa9lga0wx&topic_showPostId=v6unq0z6vtyipzts#flow-post-v6unq0z6vtyipzts) vii. https://w.wiki/3iXi

This task is about introducing a "container" to help people more easily and quickly recognize talk pages as containing conversations and get a sense for the level of activity happening within these conversations. As part of this task, we will evolve the way section titles are presented on talk pages and introduce new metadata within them to help: 1. Senior Contributors more easily and quickly get a sense for the number of conversations happening on a talk page and level of activity within them 2. Junior Contributors more easily and quickly recognize talk pages as containing conversations. //Note: we think doing this will lead them to *begin* to more clearly see talk pages as places used for communicating with other contributors.// === User Stories //Primary// - **As a Junior Contributor** who is viewing a talk page for the first time, I want to instantly recognize the page as containing conversations, **so that** I can understand talk pages as places to communicate with other people. - **As a Senior Contributor** who is visiting a talk page I haven't visited before/in a while, I want to easily understand the level of activity happening within the conversations on a talk page, **so that** I can decide where to focus my attention. //Secondary// - **As a Senior Contributor** who has developed a set of workflows around how wikitext talk pages are currently presented and function, **I want to** retain access to the features listed below, **so that** I do not need to weigh the loss of existing functionality //against// the addition of new functionality when considering whether to enable topic subscriptions. -- Existing Features: --- Section edit links --- //TBD// === Requirements **Meta** - These changes should be designed and implemented for **desktop** and **mobile** - Topic containers should be designed for, and implemented across, all [talk namespaces](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Namespace): Article Talk, User Talk, Wikipedia Talk, File Talk, MediaWiki talk, Template talk, Help talk, Category talk, Portal talk, etc. **Section title styling** - The section title should be styled [in read mode] in such a way that people recognize it as being different from the section of an article and as the title/beginning of a conversation. **Section title actions** - The section title should contain affordances that enable people to do the following: -- Copy the URL of the specific topic they are viewing --- //Note: this link should be human readable.// -- Subscribe to be notified when other people add new comments to the conversation happening within the boundaries of the section they are viewing. //We'll iterate upon the affordance introduced in T279149.// -- Open the source for the specific section/topic they are viewing so they can edit and/or inspect it **Section title metadata** - The section title should contain the following metadata that help people know the following: -- When the latest comment was posted within the topic. --- [ ] //#TODO: what logic should determine how this time is presented? E.g. When should the number of minutes/hours that have elapsed since the last comment was posted be shown? When should the time the last comment was posted be shown? When should the day and month the comment was posted be shown? When should the day, month and year the last comment was posted be shown?.// -- The total number of comments posted within the topic [vii] -- The total number of unique people who have posted a comment within a topic //Note: the metadata above should reflect the latest state of the topic in as close to real-time as possible.// === Open questions/#todo - [ ] @ppelberg to detail the preference that will need to accompany this new "container" - [ ] If we move forward with an approach in which discussion sections can be/are collapsed by default, how might we make it easy for people to collapse a section they've expanded and view the entire of discussions sections present on the page? -- //Context: @alexhollender raised this consideration in the conversation @ppelberg and he had on 2 November about T294784.// === Done --- === Background //Junior Contributors// People who are new to Wikipedia find it difficult to recognize talk pages as containing conversations and subsequently, how to make sense of and use the pages as the communication tool that they are.[i][ii][iii][iv][v] //Senior Contributors// And people who are experienced editors of Wikipedia find it difficult see the range of topics being discussed on a talk page and the extent to which people are engaging with each of these topics.[vi] === Links - On same pages at **it.wiki** some discussion pages use the [{{Bar7}} template](https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Bar7) to expose meta-actions people can take on the conversation for which the "bar" appears. //See: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bar/2020_12_15#Test_A/B_per_il_tool_di_risposta. // --- i. "Talk pages and their current configuration proved confusing, in part due to the unusual structure. Several users asked “where are the comments?” when first encountering the Talk page, and most had never seen a Talk page before. For these participants, it took more than 4-5 minutes to understand the Talk page itself which was “disorganised” making it “difficult to take part in the discussion.” //via [Understanding and Improving Wikipedia Article Discussion Spaces](http://jodischneider.com/pubs/sac2011.pdf)// ii. When describing what happened after they added a new topic using the existing section=new form, usability test participant said, "It's published in that article or in that first thing." //via [Add topic control usability test](https://app.usertesting.com/c/84caa586-f354-4202-b9a3-5e6733e551a3?note_id=clip-3354719&shared_via=link) // iii. "I'm not exactly sure where exactly the discussion is." //via [Add topic control usability test](https://app.usertesting.com/c/ef7fa984-0833-49d8-bd50-d2cf04ed57a2?note_id=clip-3354732&shared_via=link) // iv. "I have no idea what button. I don't know what it means really to start a new discussion. Because none of this looks like a discussion." //via [Add topic control usability test](https://app.usertesting.com/c/e3dc66f2-951a-4c7b-a1b7-94b8286e2855?note_id=clip-3354806&shared_via=link)// v. "I felt I had to scan the page a lot for what i needed, as different elements didn't really stand out." vi. @Pelagic suggests showing metadata about each section (e.g. the number of comments, the number of participants, when the conversation (read: section) was started, when the conversations was last updated, etc.) | [source](https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Topic:Usulqlnsa9lga0wx&topic_showPostId=v6unq0z6vtyipzts#flow-post-v6unq0z6vtyipzts) vii. https://w.wiki/3iXi

This task is about introducing a "container" to help people more easily and quickly recognize talk pages as containing conversations and get a sense for the level of activity happening within these conversations. As part of this task, we will evolve the way section titles are presented on talk pages and introduce new metadata within them to help: 1. Senior Contributors more easily and quickly get a sense for the number of conversations happening on a talk page and level of activity within them 2. Junior Contributors more easily and quickly recognize talk pages as containing conversations. //Note: we think doing this will lead them to *begin* to more clearly see talk pages as places used for communicating with other contributors.// === User Stories //Primary// - **As a Junior Contributor** who is viewing a talk page for the first time, I want to instantly recognize the page as containing conversations, **so that** I can understand talk pages as places to communicate with other people. - **As a Senior Contributor** who is visiting a talk page I haven't visited before/in a while, I want to easily understand the level of activity happening within the conversations on a talk page, **so that** I can decide where to focus my attention. //Secondary// - **As a Senior Contributor** who has developed a set of workflows around how wikitext talk pages are currently presented and function, **I want to** retain access to the features listed below, **so that** I do not need to weigh the loss of existing functionality //against// the addition of new functionality when considering whether to enable topic subscriptions. -- Existing Features: --- Section edit links --- //TBD// === Requirements **Meta** - These changes should be designed and implemented for **desktop** and **mobile** - Topic containers should be designed for, and implemented across, all [talk namespaces](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Namespace): Article Talk, User Talk, Wikipedia Talk, File Talk, MediaWiki talk, Template talk, Help talk, Category talk, Portal talk, etc. **Section title styling** - The section title should be styled [in read mode] in such a way that people recognize it as being different from the section of an article and as the title/beginning of a conversation. **Section title actions** - The section title should contain affordances that enable people to do the following: -- Copy the URL of the specific topic they are viewing --- //Note: this link should be human readable.// -- Subscribe to be notified when other people add new comments to the conversation happening within the boundaries of the section they are viewing. //We'll iterate upon the affordance introduced in T279149.// -- Open the source for the specific section/topic they are viewing so they can edit and/or inspect it **Section title metadata** - The section title should contain the following metadata that help people know the following: -- When the latest comment was posted within the topic. --- [ ] //#TODO: what logic should determine how this time is presented? E.g. When should the number of minutes/hours that have elapsed since the last comment was posted be shown? When should the time the last comment was posted be shown? When should the day and month the comment was posted be shown? When should the day, month and year the last comment was posted be shown?.// -- The total number of comments posted within the topic [vii] -- The total number of unique people who have posted a comment within a topic //Note: the metadata above should reflect the latest state of the topic in as close to real-time as possible.// === Open questions/#todo - [ ] @ppelberg to detail the preference that will need to accompany this new "container" - [ ] If we move forward with an approach in which discussion sections can be/are collapsed by default, how might we make it easy for people to collapse a section they've expanded and view the entire of discussions sections present on the page? -- //Context: @alexhollender raised this consideration in the conversation @ppelberg and he had on 2 November about T294784.// === Done --- === Background //Junior Contributors// People who are new to Wikipedia find it difficult to recognize talk pages as containing conversations and subsequently, how to make sense of and use the pages as the communication tool that they are.[i][ii][iii][iv][v] //Senior Contributors// And people who are experienced editors of Wikipedia find it difficult see the range of topics being discussed on a talk page and the extent to which people are engaging with each of these topics.[vi] === Links - On same pages at **it.wiki** some discussion pages use the [{{Bar7}} template](https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Bar7) to expose meta-actions people can take on the conversation for which the "bar" appears. //See: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bar/2020_12_15#Test_A/B_per_il_tool_di_risposta. // --- i. "Talk pages and their current configuration proved confusing, in part due to the unusual structure. Several users asked “where are the comments?” when first encountering the Talk page, and most had never seen a Talk page before. For these participants, it took more than 4-5 minutes to understand the Talk page itself which was “disorganised” making it “difficult to take part in the discussion.” //via [Understanding and Improving Wikipedia Article Discussion Spaces](http://jodischneider.com/pubs/sac2011.pdf)// ii. When describing what happened after they added a new topic using the existing section=new form, usability test participant said, "It's published in that article or in that first thing." //via [Add topic control usability test](https://app.usertesting.com/c/84caa586-f354-4202-b9a3-5e6733e551a3?note_id=clip-3354719&shared_via=link) // iii. "I'm not exactly sure where exactly the discussion is." //via [Add topic control usability test](https://app.usertesting.com/c/ef7fa984-0833-49d8-bd50-d2cf04ed57a2?note_id=clip-3354732&shared_via=link) // iv. "I have no idea what button. I don't know what it means really to start a new discussion. Because none of this looks like a discussion." //via [Add topic control usability test](https://app.usertesting.com/c/e3dc66f2-951a-4c7b-a1b7-94b8286e2855?note_id=clip-3354806&shared_via=link)// v. "I felt I had to scan the page a lot for what i needed, as different elements didn't really stand out." vi. @Pelagic suggests showing metadata about each section (e.g. the number of comments, the number of participants, when the conversation (read: section) was started, when the conversations was last updated, etc.) | [source](https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Topic:Usulqlnsa9lga0wx&topic_showPostId=v6unq0z6vtyipzts#flow-post-v6unq0z6vtyipzts) vii. https://w.wiki/3iXi