Newsletter Extension Meeting #3 ( Lyon meeting )
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Authored by Tinaj1234 on May 26 2015, 9:14 AM.

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	F169412: Newsletter Extension Meeting #3 ( Lyon meeting )
	May 26 2015, 9:14 AM

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	2:39 PM <qgil> Hi tinajohnson
	2:39 PM <tinajohnson> Hey!
	2:39 PM <tinajohnson> working on the mockups
	2:40 PM <qgil> tonythomas and me just found a place, after the opening etc
	2:40 PM <tonythomas> true :)
	2:40 PM <tonythomas> we are looking at the MVP plan again
	2:41 PM <tinajohnson> oh nice
	2:41 PM <tinajohnson> MVP sure needs a lot of reviews
	2:41 PM <qgil> yep https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T99784
	2:41 PM <tinajohnson> I'm getting a better idea as I make the mockups
	2:50 PM <tinajohnson> Listing issues of a particular newsletter
	2:50 PM <tinajohnson> I've not mentioned that in the MVP
	2:51 PM <tinajohnson> it can be in 'Manage Newsletter'
	2:51 PM <tinajohnson> in the home page of every newsletter maybe ?
	2:55 PM <tonythomas> tinajohnson: we are just editing the MVP a bit
	2:55 PM <tinajohnson> sure
	2:55 PM <tinajohnson> Can I take a 5 min break to have my lunch ( my mom is screaming ) ?
	3:08 PM <tonythomas> tinajohnson: alright !
	3:14 PM <qgil> tinajohnson, bon appetit! Check https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T99784 when you're back.
	3:14 PM <qgil> We will have lunch time ourselves in 15 minutes, we can have a chat when we're back in about 75 minutes.
	3:14 PM <qgil> Here on IRC, polishing the features, with the goal of signing off the MVP today.
	3:17 PM <tinajohnson> back
	3:18 PM <tinajohnson> see you after lunch
	3:18 PM <qgil> ok, in the meantime you can digest (your lunch and our feedback) :)
	3:19 PM <qgil> Feel free to keep editing the description of, answering our questions or just editing the features directly
	3:34 PM ⇐ qgil quit (~qgil@176.2.70.90) Ping timeout: 240 seconds
	4:19 PM <tinajohnson> I've commented in the description. Do have a look
	4:41 PM → qgil joined (~qgil@176.2.70.90)
	4:52 PM <qgil> hi tinajohnson
	4:52 PM <qgil> So there is plenty of people, and it is difficult to do anything fast here, but here we are :)
	4:53 PM <qgil> tonythomas is somewhere, but let's start if tinajohnson is available
	4:53 PM <qgil> also, we have quiddity
	4:53 PM <quiddity> Hi :)
	4:53 PM <qgil> ... and tonythomas now :)
	4:54 PM <qgil> tinajohnson has been editing https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T99784 in the meantime, please check
	4:54 PM <tonythomas> yeah !
	4:56 PM <qgil> "Stop a newsletter", it is not about being easy or not, it's about removing from the MVP anything that is not essential.
	4:57 PM <qgil> It's less work for tinajohnson , so I don't think she will complain. :)
	4:57 PM <qgil> In any case, tinajohnson when you're back feel free to complain
	4:59 PM <qgil> About collaborators, we think this is a problem we don't need to solve in the scope of the Newsletter extension.
	5:00 PM <qgil> Issues of newsletters are regular wiki pages, and the regular ways to edit, disucss, protect, apply.
	5:00 PM <qgil> discuss
	5:01 PM <qgil> Actually...
	5:02 PM <qgil> We are discussing something
	5:02 PM <qgil> about who can create a new issue of a newsletter, but even in this case,
	5:02 PM <tonythomas> we *might not need it in the MVP !
	5:02 PM <qgil> today, I could create a new issue of i.e. The Signpost
	5:03 PM <qgil> So yes, for the sake of the MVP, let s leave this questions for later, and let's just assume that anybody can create issues of an existing newsletter\
	5:03 PM <qgil> Therefore, as of today we don't have "Collaborators"
	5:12 PM <tinajohnson> hey !
	5:12 PM <tinajohnson> had some internet trouble
	5:13 PM <tinajohnson> quiddity: Hi, your bookmarks are helping me a lot :)
	5:14 PM <tinajohnson> Agreed, no collaborators and no stopping newsletters for now
	5:14 PM <tonythomas> so - we were thinking about use casees, and as for the MVP - we have planned it like 'Any registered user can create a new Issue for any NewsLetter connected to his wiki'
	5:14 PM <tonythomas> sounds sensible ?
	5:14 PM <tonythomas> I think it will help you save all those ( check permission, allow creating issue ) things
	5:14 PM <tinajohnson> hm, cool
	5:15 PM <tonythomas> so - the registered user go to a Specail:NewsLetter , see all the newsletters connected to his wiki -> see the button to 'Create a new issue' and he is creating :)
	5:16 PM <tinajohnson> hm, ok
	5:16 PM <qgil> "Email is the only mode..." turns out that an Echo plugin should be easier to write than a handler of emails
	5:16 PM <tinajohnson> Right, I wanted to ask Lego but you know he is busy
	5:16 PM <qgil> This also saves us from scenarios like "what happens when the user doesn't have an email in their account", snce Echo solves that
	5:17 PM <tinajohnson> I think the same, we should go for Echo
	5:17 PM <qgil> legoktm is in the hackathon as well, btw
	5:17 PM <qgil> ok
	5:17 PM <legoktm> hi
	5:17 PM <tonythomas> wow :)
	5:17 PM <tinajohnson> hi :)
	5:18 PM <tinajohnson> So to notify the users we think Echo must be the best way
	5:19 PM <qgil> "How does the user knows that Newsletters even exist?" we actually agree that this is a "social" problem and can wait, out of the MVP
	5:19 PM <qgil> ... and one last point that we have discussed
	5:19 PM <tonythomas> tinajohnson: since its just a notification email telling 'A new issue has arrived', I think passing that in the email param to Echo function call would generate the Email + the flyout too - so just Echo !
	5:20 PM <quiddity> tonythomas, I don't think there needs to be a large "create a new issue" button, because only a few people will ever need to create a new issue of any newsletter. It doesn't need to be easily accessible by anyone.
	5:20 PM <qgil> There should be a feature of "Announcing a newsletter", which is different than "Publishing", because you might have a new issue cretaed but still need more time to add more content, as for reviewers, etc
	5:20 PM <tinajohnson> legoktm: I could use some other extension which has incorporated Echo as an example. Any extensions in mind ?
	5:21 PM <tinajohnson> "How does the user knows that Newsletters even exist?" - you mean like advertising the newsletters ?
	5:21 PM <qgil> Ref announcing new issues of newsletters, let's add the feature in the MVP, and we will discuss the details in the related task
	5:21 PM <qgil> tinajohnson, yes, but we can think about this later
	5:22 PM <tinajohnson> ok
	5:22 PM <quiddity> tinajohnson, the Thanks extension also uses Echo. There's a larger list at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Echo_%28Notifications%29/Message_audit
	5:22 PM <tinajohnson> aha !
	5:22 PM <tonythomas> quiddity: heh. true that - so - its like ) registered user can create a new issue ) admins or people with 'create-massmessage' rights can send out the notifications
	5:22 PM <tonythomas> right ?
	5:22 PM <qgil> tinajohnson, I think with this feedback you can edit https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T99784 and have the final list of features for the MVP.
	5:23 PM <tinajohnson> ok.
	5:23 PM <qgil> You can create the task for each feature, and link to them from the description
	5:23 PM <tinajohnson> qgil: Do you want to keep a list of to-do features ?
	5:24 PM <tinajohnson> I'll do that
	5:24 PM <qgil> This will allow you to start working on specific features, attach related mockups to it, discuss the technical details, etc
	5:24 PM <qgil> Ref to do, you can start organizing https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/mediawiki-extensions-newsletter/
	5:25 PM <tinajohnson> Alright
	5:25 PM <tinajohnson> qgil: Should MVP have a list of features to be added in the future ?
	5:26 PM <qgil> I think it is better to focus now on MVP, everything else is "Backlog"
	5:26 PM <quiddity> tonythomas, yup. And creating a new issue is just a case of either: ) clicking a redlink and starting from a blank page, or ) clicking a redlink with "preload=..."
	5:26 PM <qgil> When we are happy about the MVP, then we can look on what to work next
	5:26 PM <quiddity> (or at least that's how I'm imagining it!)
	5:26 PM <qgil> There is no need to commit right now on features for later, and developing the MVP we may learn many new things
	5:27 PM <tinajohnson> Also, anyone of you know how to use InputBox with another extension. I asked the developer, Erik Moller - he seems to be not working on it lately
	5:27 PM <tinajohnson> qgil: ok
	5:27 PM <tinajohnson> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:InputBox#Use_InputBox_with_Newsletter_extension_57065
	5:27 PM <qgil> Erik Moeller has othr things to focus on right now, I guess. ;)
	5:28 PM <qgil> Anything else? There is a session I want to attend in 2 minutes. :)
	5:28 PM <tinajohnson> I think that's it
	5:29 PM <qgil> Good! Then let's continue talking about specific features as soon as we have tasks for them
	5:29 PM <qgil> we can start with whichever features you want to go first, tinajohnson
	5:29 PM <tonythomas> I have few stuff with 'whose going to publish a new issue ie sent out email notifs' - will discuss
	5:30 PM → Niharika joined (~Niharika@122.161.75.65)
	5:30 PM <tinajohnson> Shall we start off with 'Creating newsletters' ?
	5:31 PM <tinajohnson> and then build on it
	5:33 PM <tonythomas> tinajohnson: yeah! more phab subtasks !
	5:34 PM ⇐ qgil quit (~qgil@176.2.70.90) Ping timeout: 244 seconds
	5:47 PM — Niharika waves
	5:54 PM → qgil joined ↔ quiddity nipped out
	6:34 PM <qgil> tinajohnson, "Create a new issue for an existing newsletter
	6:34 PM <qgil> <qgil> Publishing a newsletter"
	6:34 PM <qgil> <qgil> aren't both the same?
	6:55 PM <tinajohnson> yup
	6:55 PM — tinajohnson removes the duplicate
	6:58 PM <tinajohnson> but isn't creating a issue and publishing a issue different ?
	7:01 PM <qgil> Mmm... we will need to define the workflow in detail, but I think for now it is better to assume that they are th same
	7:01 PM <tinajohnson> ok
	7:02 PM <tinajohnson> qgil: I'll be offline for a while now ~1 hour maybe
	7:02 PM <tinajohnson> will do the rest after returning
	7:03 PM <qgil> I think we achieved a lot today
	7:03 PM <qgil> even if the final result loooks... so simple
	7:03 PM <qgil> Simplicity takes work. :)

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Newsletter Extension Meeting #3 ( Lyon meeting )
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