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Chechen style for lists requires "a" after every list item
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Description

Step to reproduce: open Special:UserRights (for a user with multiple groups) or write {{#property:P102}} in [[w:ce:Трамп, Дональд]].

Result: you get «АЦШ-н республикан парти, АЦШ-н республикан парти, АЦШ-н республикан парти» and «куьйгалхо, патруль а автопатруль» respectively; instead, every list item should be followed by an a (before the comma or after the last item).

Event Timeline

Umar created this task.Dec 23 2016, 4:10 PM
Restricted Application added a subscriber: Aklapper. · View Herald TranscriptDec 23 2016, 4:10 PM
Nemo_bis renamed this task from Spelling to Spelling in Chechen.Dec 23 2016, 4:16 PM
Nemo_bis added a project: MediaWiki-General.
Nemo_bis updated the task description. (Show Details)
Nemo_bis added a subscriber: Nemo_bis.

What page is that? Please link.

Nemo_bis added a comment.EditedDec 23 2016, 4:31 PM

Please upload attachments with https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/file/upload , not with random websites.

I don't understand: which screenshot shows the actual problem you're seeing? F5143591 or F5143390?

Are you saying the problem has something to do with the formatting of lists?

The last screenshot seems to be from w:ce:Трамп, Дональд. The "Парти" parameter is not filled locally and seems to come from https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q22686#P102 .

Nemo_bis renamed this task from Spelling in Chechen to List of property values in one template does not follow Chechen style for lists.Dec 23 2016, 4:41 PM
Nemo_bis triaged this task as Medium priority.
Restricted Application added a project: Wikidata. · View Herald TranscriptDec 23 2016, 4:41 PM

In [[w:ce:Трамп, Дональд]], if I write {{#property:P102}} I get "АЦШ-н республикан парти, АЦШ-н республикан парти, АЦШ-н республикан парти" . Is that prefix "АЦШ-н" correct?

Nemo_bis added a comment.EditedDec 23 2016, 4:51 PM

UserRights currently says: «бакъо автопатруль, патруль а куьйгалхо → патруль а куьйгалхо», «бакъо куьйгалхо → куьйгалхо, патруль а автопатруль», «бакъо куьйгалхо → куьйгалхо а IP-блоктохаран юкъарадаккхар».

The listToText() and commaList() functions, which should be used here, use:

You can replace the comma "," with "а," in MediaWiki:Comma-separator/ce, if you want. Then we still have to add an "a" after the last item?

Umar added a comment.Dec 23 2016, 4:53 PM

that's so right "АЦШ-н республикан парти А, АЦШ-н республикан парти А АЦШ-н республикан парти А"

Nemo_bis renamed this task from List of property values in one template does not follow Chechen style for lists to Chechen style for lists requires "a" after every list item.Dec 23 2016, 5:00 PM
Nemo_bis updated the task description. (Show Details)
Umar added a comment.Dec 23 2016, 5:08 PM

Attempting to explain "Ameriks AND, Kanada AND, Russia AND, Braziliya AND"

Liuxinyu970226 added a subscriber: Liuxinyu970226.EditedDec 28 2016, 8:44 AM

If this means that in Chechen, we should also add the word "and" after the last item of an array-like sentense, then why can't we create an *optional* "trailing-separator", and add it when necessary?

Or we can ask for suggestions from CLDR/AMP/IANA/IETF/...?

TTO added a subscriber: TTO.Dec 28 2016, 9:16 AM

If this means that in Chechen, we should also add the word "and" after the last item of an array-like sentense, then why can't we create an *optional* "trailing-separator", and add it when necessary?

That seems like a sensible approach. The other alternative is to add a LanguageCe class that overrides the commaList function, which might be more appropriate if Chechen is the only language known to require this feature. (But I suspect that is not the case.)

Or we can ask for suggestions from CLDR/AMP/IANA/IETF/...?

If you look at what most of those organisations do, you'll see that they would not be interested in this issue.

Nemo_bis added a comment.EditedDec 28 2016, 8:47 PM

If this means that in Chechen, we should also add the word "and" after the last item of an array-like sentense, then why can't we create an *optional* "trailing-separator", and add it when necessary?

That seems like a sensible approach. The other alternative is to add a LanguageCe class that overrides the commaList function, which might be more appropriate if Chechen is the only language known to require this feature. (But I suspect that is not the case.)

Both approaches are acceptable, but adding another message for the lists (empty in English) also bears a little cognitive cost for translators of all the other languages. The more complex this area of i18n becomes, the more important it gets to document it correctly; at least a subsection of https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating:MediaWiki#Translation_notes is in order, I guess.

Umar added a comment.Dec 28 2016, 9:01 PM

Here you yourself have written everything correctly - Chechen style for lists requires "a" after every list item.

Umar added a comment.Dec 28 2016, 9:07 PM

Now so: Ангола, Луанда, Африка, Андорра, Андорра-ла-Велья, Европа, Антигуа, Сент-Джонс, Северная Америка, Аргентина, Буэнос-Айрес А Южная Америка

That's right: Ангола а, Луанда а, Африка а, Андорра а, Андорра-ла-Велья а, Европа а, Антигуа а, Сент-Джонс а, Северная Америка а, Аргентина а, Буэнос-Айрес а, Южная Америка а

Restricted Application added a subscriber: PokestarFan. · View Herald TranscriptAug 3 2017, 10:45 AM
Umar added a comment.Nov 16 2017, 11:56 PM

Unfortunately not enough last A

TTO added a comment.Nov 17 2017, 8:56 AM

The other alternative is to add a LanguageCe class that overrides the commaList function, which might be more appropriate if Chechen is the only language known to require this feature. (But I suspect that is not the case.)

In the absence of any evidence that other languages require this feature (@Umar, do you know of any other languages where lists of words behave in a similar way to Chechen?) it might be more straightforward to pursue this.