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Keeping a default input method for ULS when not logged in
Open, Needs TriagePublic

Description

It goes without saying that when a new user lands on a Wikimedia project that does not use Latin as their default writing system, they should be able to type in the writing system that the project uses. For instance, if I open Arabic Wikipedia when not logged in or I have just created a new account, the default writing system on ULS should be Arabic and not Latin. Currently, it is Latin for all projects irrespective of what writing system(s) the project uses. (original text when this bug was reported)

To reproduce this issue (edited Jun 4):

  1. Open any random page that on Odia Wikisource in private/incognito mode in a computer web browser.
  2. Start typing in the input field.

When the default input should be the default input for Odia, it shows Latin. One would need to know that they need to Ctrl+M to be able to enable the ULS. (edited Jun 4)

(original text when this bug was reported) There might be some global contributors who would land on a project page and they might type without being logged in, but it would only make sense to assume that majority of the new users (either logged in from new account or not logged in) should type in the native script rather than Latin. Also, why Latin when more than 30% of world's written languages do not use Latin by default?

The second part of this issue lies with the top choices on ULS. I was logged in from an IP from India, Karnataka to be precise, and I was not using VPN. However the choices of languages goes in order of Hindi (uses Devanagari), Bengali, Telugu, Marathi (uses Devanagari) and Tamil. This does not make any sense either. Why geolocation would matter when the project uses a specific writing system (Odia in this case). The desirable choice on the top should be Odia and not Hindi in this case (and respective default writing system on ULS for the project for other similar projects).

Screen shot.png (1×2 px, 872 KB)

Unless there are some strong explanations for Latin, I would request for changing to the default ULS option for new account creators or users not logged in.

Event Timeline

Aklapper changed the task status from Open to Stalled.May 27 2020, 8:55 AM

Open a page that is yet to be typed on Odia Wikisource in private/incognito mode in any browser.

The link above is NOT to a page on Odia Wikisource. Hence the steps are either incomplete or wrong. That page explicitly says "This is the multilingual Wikisource".
Please correct the steps to reproduce. Furthermore,

If this is about taking into account your web browser setting for preferred languages, I'd wonder which input method (if there are several available for a language) should be used?

psubhashish1 changed the task status from Stalled to Open.May 28 2020, 4:45 PM
psubhashish1 updated the task description. (Show Details)
psubhashish1 set the point value for this task to 1.

Open a page that is yet to be typed on Odia Wikisource in private/incognito mode in any browser.

The link above is NOT to a page on Odia Wikisource. Hence the steps are either incomplete or wrong. That page explicitly says "This is the multilingual Wikisource".
Please correct the steps to reproduce. Furthermore,

If this is about taking into account your web browser setting for preferred languages, I'd wonder which input method (if there are several available for a language) should be used?

Updated the link. I missed the language code "or" in the URL but updated now with a different page that is yet to be created.

Aklapper removed the point value for this task.May 28 2020, 4:48 PM

@psubhashish1:

Steps to reproduce:

  1. I am not logged in.
  2. I am on a machine which by default inputs latin letters.
  3. I go to https://wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights_Oriya.pdf/7
  4. I click "Edit"
  5. I end up on https://wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights_Oriya.pdf/7&action=edit

And now I don't know what exactly you are expecting, and why... Please always follow https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_report_a_bug and explain 1) What you expect and why. 2) What happens instead. In separate sections.

Is there any machine-readable information anywhere that Page:Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights_Oriya.pdf is in Odia?
I am basically wondering what your expectation is based on that some software could somehow (how?) realize that an Odia input method should be chosen.
But maybe I am not aware of something obvious here. :)

1) What you expect and why:
As the project's primary language is Odia, the input method which is default for Odia on ULS should be enabled instead of Latin appearing by default. The reason being many new contributors might not log in or know how to change it in the very first place. Keeping the default input in the writing system that is used for the project will help.

2) What happens instead:
The input method is Latin by default when it should be Odia.

Number 2 and number 5 are irrelevant in the steps you've written. The issue is not with the content (Universal Declaration of Human Rights in this case). It's about the default input being Latin on the project.

Aklapper changed the task status from Open to Stalled.Jun 2 2020, 1:11 PM

1) What you expect and why:
As the project's primary language is Odia

If "project" means website, then it is not. You are on https://wikisource.org/ . You are not on https://or.wikisource.org/ .
How do you define "project" then? Where to technically find the "project"'s primary language when you are on wikisource.org and not or.wikisource.org?

By project I meant a Wikimedia project. I opened Odia Wikisource in private mode (Firefox 76.0.1) as well and the default input is still Latin.

Again: Please provide working steps to reproduce the problem. You can edit the task description by clicking Edit Task.

Updated in the first message in this thread.

the default writing system on ULS should be Arabic and not Latin.

I would disagree here (if I understand correctly): The default input method should be the one defined by your operating system that is running on your device.
It would not be a good user experience if a website silently preselects some input method for you (plus many languages have more than one input method, which one to preselect?) and you suddenly type in a different script and different letters are shown on the screen than the letters on your keyboard that you just pressed without having an idea what is happening.
@psubhashish1: Wouldn't that be totally confusing to a user? (Or do I misunderstand you?)

the default writing system on ULS should be Arabic and not Latin.

I would disagree here (if I understand correctly): The default input method should be the one defined by your operating system that is running on your device.
It would not be a good user experience if a website silently preselects some input method for you (plus many languages have more than one input method, which one to preselect?) and you suddenly type in a different script and different letters are shown on the screen than the letters on your keyboard that you just pressed without having an idea what is happening.
@psubhashish1: Wouldn't that be totally confusing to a user? (Or do I misunderstand you?)

What you've written probably is relevant to users of many writing systems. But I must provide some context here. Generally speaking in India, and particularly the Odia-language speakers have EN-IN as their default input. As a result of that Odia Wikipedia often sees new articles, edits in existing articles and discussions from new editors in Latin. The UI of ULS is not intuitive enough for a first-time user to get. For starters, it's a multi-step process (one has to first press, then notice a keyboard appearing in a corner, be curious enough to click on that and figure out that they need to press CTRL+M to enable the input in their writing system). :-) If they are a developer who works in the language-computing domain, it might seem very familiar. If they are a common user, it won't be. Also, I'm curious, why a user would be confused or surprised to see Odia characters in Odia Wikisource or Odia Wikipedia? I can guess that it might be a bit confusing if Odia Wikisource or Odia Wikipedia used five different writing systems. That would have been difficult and probably needed a community consensus to choose one. But that is not the case here. Hope I clarified but happy to provide any specifics that might help here.

Also, I'm curious, why a user would be confused or surprised to see Odia characters in Odia Wikisource or Odia Wikipedia?

I have a device. I set an input method on that device. I press a key on my keyboard. That key has a specific letter associated to it, depending on the input method choosen on my device. On my screen, a totally different letter is shown. Not the one that is associated to the key that I pressed. Would you expect that?

The UI of ULS is not intuitive enough for a first-time user to get.

In my opinion, that should be the actual underlying problem to discuss and solve. Not the "solution" proposed in this ticket.
Also see https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/66377/what-is-the-xy-problem#answer-66378

The XY problem is an interesting perspective -- it helped me look at this whole thing from a different angle. That said, I'd like to ask you something too. When you're saying "I have a device" what is the persona of this person that you're assuming? The persona of an average Odia speaker who would read Wikipedia goes like this:

  • Not very tech-savvy so uses the Latin input as it comes by default with the device.
  • Hasn't yet figured how to type in Odia or types only occasionally when needed.
  • Does not know how to search in Google in Odia.
  • Lands on Odia Wikipedia accidentally.

I can imagine that as someone who knows well how to set an input method on a device and being used to using multiple input methods, this might be a bit weird but most common users (except some young users who are technically smart enough to figure on their own) that I encounter do not know how to type in Odia. The XY problem is a very binary way of looking at things because I see the default effect having a deeper impact on common users. A common misconception lies with many users that the internet is all English. I am not saying that we will solve the world's problems and convert all common users into avid contributors just by changing the default input into Odia, but, denying the bias that exists is problematic. We have a serious issue with a) converting readers into contributors, and having more folks over 40 years (only a small % use Odia in their smartphones or computers very recently) old as editors. I wish I could conduct a survey to show you empirical evidence but I am sharing things based on personal interactions.

Probably answer a simple question if you could -- why a project that has its frontend language and script set in Odia have a Latin input as default, esp. when we know that majority of the users have Latin set as their default input only because of the default effect. Also, unlike Chinese or Russian or Japanese, Odia is not used widely for formal work for most native speakers. It's mostly English that people use at workplaces for formal writing.

Aklapper changed the task status from Stalled to Open.Jun 17 2020, 9:05 AM