I boldly removed ORES in https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=New_Developers&type=revision&diff=5101793&oldid=5062371 (though https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/ORES still seems to lack information and guidance about its state, versus Lift Wing on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Machine_Learning ).

The Developer-Advocacy team will discuss the page in a meeting on 2022-04-26

From Samwalton9 via email:

Anecdotally I think we've had quite a number of volunteers find the project and submit PRs through the New Developers page.

Since our team is moving on to focus on other projects, and we haven't had as much time to flag good first tasks, I think it's fine to remove us from this page now :)

As a follow-up, removing "Wikipedia Library" project from the guide.

Also removed project Huggle as received no response from the mentor.

Sent a "call for projects" email to the mailing lists (Wikimedia-l, Wikidata-l, Cloud-l, Wikidata-l).

https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/4ZWIGSNFW5TLP2M7QQHGKXVD4KNNZ6NN/

Also, posted on foundation slack channels tech-dept and product-dept

Pywikibot needs development resources in its current state. As per a maintainer, it makes sense to keep it on the page for the very reason. But in my opinion, it is not an ideal project for new developers for the same reason (see an example: https://blog.atagar.com/august2021/). Hence, I'm removing it from the listing.

In T274236#7919521, @srishakatux wrote:

Pywikibot needs development resources in its current state. As per a maintainer, it makes sense to keep it on the page for the very reason. But in my opinion, it is not an ideal project for new developers for the same reason (see an example: https://blog.atagar.com/august2021/). Hence, I'm removing it from the listing.

I disagree. A single statement does not reflect the actual situation. I think the first response for a uploaded path is made in a few days. There are a some good first task where newcomers can work on and their work is always mainainted.

In T274236#7921909, @Xqt wrote:

I disagree. A single statement does not reflect the actual situation. I think the first response for a uploaded path is made in a few days. There are a some good first task where newcomers can work on and their work is always mainainted.

After conversing with @Dvorapa (previously listed as a mentor for the project), via email a few days ago, I gathered they probably do not have sufficient time to mentor. Still, they are interested in mentoring novices, but the project has seen almost none recently. Currently, you are the main developer with +2 rights. By listing the project on the new developer's page, you want to reach newcomers and get help for the project's development. Yes, I fully understand that and have personally realized how widespread the bot framework is among smaller wikis by working with them recently! Still, I see this as a chicken and egg problem. You want to attract more devs, but the project first needs more devs/maintainers. We share the new developers' guide, sometimes with absolute beginners to open source and Wikimedia's technical ecosystem. My only concern was that we might disappoint newbies who need a bit of hand holding and help first to get started in the project's current state.

Also, as per the criteria for a featured project listed here:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/New_Developers/Featured_Projects#How_to_become_a_featured_project_recommended_to_new_developers,
"mentoring" is crucial.

In any case, if you disagree still, let's keep the project on the page!

I think you've summarized my thoughts pretty well. From my point of view, there came nothing good from mentoring novices, who never saw Pywikibot before and never used it on a wiki. Just losing time with those basically, as no one stayed with Pywikibot long-term and for me personally it was just too much energy for almost nothing. I had to teach them basics - how to use Pywikibot's scripts, Gerrit, Phabricator, Git, command line, wiki, Python, ... and what for?
I remember more interest at the 2019 Prague Wikimedia Hackathon came from people already using it / planning to use it on their task/project/wiki.
I am now starting to think that this might be better audience to reach as they are already familiar / getting familiar with Pywikibot and also might be more willing to stay contributing to Pywikibot, once they first try. Me and @matej_suchanek are good examples of such Pywikibot users, who started to contribute to the project as well. Such people might even need less mentoring as they dig in Pywikibot docs by themselves. So I would propose targetting such people / communities.

Thank you @Dvorapa for this statement. Now it is more clear to me that we were acting like this: Never spend 6 minutes doing something by hand when you can spend 6 hours failing to automate it. T308266 is a good example what's going wrong. I spent a lot of time to create this task but it was not sufficient enough to get a working patch back. I tend to revert myself on the target page.

Closing this task for now as filed T312164