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Change NS_USER and NS_USER_TALK namespaces at ptwiki
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Description

Please, reset the correct default namespaces 2 and 3 at Portuguese Wikipedia (ptwiki) to "Usuário" and "Usuário Discussão".

Yesterday, during the MediaWiki update, the namespaces 2 and 3 ("Usuário" and "Usuário Discussão") was changed for "Utilizador" and "Utilizador Discussão". "Usuário" has always been a consolidated and widely accepted form for these namespaces at ptwiki.

Thanks in advance,

[Ruy Pugliesi]: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ruy_Pugliesi


Version: unspecified
Severity: major

Details

Reference
bz27495

Event Timeline

bzimport raised the priority of this task from to Medium.Nov 21 2014, 11:24 PM
bzimport set Reference to bz27495.
RuyP created this task.Feb 17 2011, 12:19 PM

r66515 is the reason the new user namespace translation. I was told that the new translation is correct.

As far as it is not possible to switch main translation and alias for 1 project only.

RuyP added a comment.Feb 17 2011, 1:24 PM

(In reply to comment #1)

r66515 is the reason the new user namespace translation. I was told that the
new translation is correct.

As far as it is not possible to switch main translation and alias for 1 project
only.

Sorry, but changing from pt-br to pt-pt is not acceptable. Furthermore, the new translation is incorrect for ptwiki. Isn't there another way to solve that? Couldn't you switch main translation for all projects, so? Thx.

danny.leinad wrote:

Per disussion on http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Thread:Support/Namespaces_in_pt it looks that translation is correct.

If community would like to have own local name of user namespace, should request to set in http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=InitialiseSettings.php:

'wgExtraNamespaces' => array(

'ptwiki' => array( 
    NS_PROJECT_TALK => 'Usuário_Discussão',
    NS_USER => 'Usuário',
),

),

RuyP added a comment.Feb 17 2011, 1:43 PM

(In reply to comment #3)

Per disussion on http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Thread:Support/Namespaces_in_pt
it looks that translation is correct.

If community would like to have own local name of user namespace, should
request to set in
http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=InitialiseSettings.php:

'wgExtraNamespaces' => array(

'ptwiki' => array( 
    NS_PROJECT_TALK => 'Usuário_Discussão',
    NS_USER => 'Usuário',
),

),

Yep, ptwiki community does want to have own local name of user namespace. It was previously discussed in April 2010, as you can see here: http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Esplanada/geral/J%C3%A1_n%C3%A3o_somos_usu%C3%A1rios,_somos_utilizadores_%289abr2010%29

So, please, you can set that in http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=InitialiseSettings.php, as you appointed above.

Thanks.

danny.leinad wrote:

(In reply to comment #3)

'wgExtraNamespaces' => array(

'ptwiki' => array( 
    NS_PROJECT_TALK => 'Usuário_Discussão',
    NS_USER => 'Usuário',
),

),

Sorry, I made a mistake, correct code is:

'wgExtraNamespaces' => array(

'ptwiki' => array( 
    NS_USER => 'Usuário',
    NS_USER_TALK => 'Usuário_Discussão',
),

),

I have just fixed the pt wikipedia, verified the change by looking at the search page:
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Especial:Pesquisar

Hi, could you please add "Utilizador" and "Utilizador Discussão" as aliases to namespaces 2 and 3, respectively? They existed before and some links have been broken. Thanks.

The link pointed at comment #4 as "discussion" hardly contains any discussion about which form ("usuário" or "utilizador") should be used; it contains instead tehcnical discussion about why the change happened and how to restore the previous state.

For future reference, proper discussion about what form ptwiki should use to translate "user" can be found at [[pt:Wikipédia:Grande reforma dos domínios#Usuário]] and [[pt:Wikipédia:Votações/Renomeação de namespaces#Namespace:Usuário]]

Opraco > the "Utilizador" namespace only existed for 3 days on ptwiki and was a "bug" in our deployment of 1.17 on the Wikimedia servers.
The above links seems to request a change to "Wikipedista", so I am not going to add namespaces aliases possibly unwanted by the community.

(In reply to comment #10)

The above links seems to request a change to "Wikipedista", so I am not going
to add namespaces aliases possibly unwanted by the community.

(Assuming you mean the links I posted) The first one barely contains any consensus. Too few people participated and it consisted mostly of ideas thrown in a brainstorming, without any attempt to reach consensus. I added it for completeness and historical reference.

The second link does indeed gather a community decision (though not by any significant consensus, 27 people for the change vs. 25 against) to alter the namespace from "usuário" to "wikipedista". This was requested here (bug 9587) and refused since it's Wikipedia-specific (not even WMF-specific since there's also wiktionary, etc).

I am only adding this comment for future reference; however, I do think it's unfortunate that ptwiki uses a Brazilian term for user rather than the more neutral "utilizador" (which is acceptable in all variants of Portuguese). I will add my support if a proposal to remove the Brazilian-specific customizations at ptwikipedia (mentioned by Leinad above) is made.

(In reply to comment #10)

Opraco > the "Utilizador" namespace only existed for 3 days on ptwiki and was a
"bug" in our deployment of 1.17 on the Wikimedia servers.
The above links seems to request a change to "Wikipedista", so I am not going
to add namespaces aliases possibly unwanted by the community.

If I remember correctly, the alias "Utilizador" existed before the update. Indeed, both names can be used in other Portuguese projects. It is annoying to have the links woking in all Portuguese wikis except Wikipedia.

So basically I should override the MediaWiki setting which is portuguese (PT_pt) :

  • use the Brazillan PT_br translations for all portugueses projects (wikipedia, wikiquote ...)
  • use the portuguese PT_pt variant as namespace alias

Would it fit the needs of the community ?

I am not sure about that, I think only the pt.wikipedia community is more vocal about that (having "Usuário" as default), and mostly for historical reasons. I think a global poll to set this issue for good would be in order before any changes.

But if you'd rather solve this quickly and set up aliases so that both are valid, that would, I believe, satisfy most people (those who care to complain, at least).

I have added the aliases to the cluster. 'Utilizador' now points to 'Usuário' which is the default.