saibotrash wrote:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Preferences&uselang=en#mw-prefsection-uploads

Drop the full deed link and make the relevant text link to the deed in the right language.

saibotrash wrote:

(In reply to comment #2)

Drop the full deed link and make the relevant text link to the deed in the
right language.

Do you mean the full legal code link?

saibotrash wrote:

btw: idea: to not mess around with non-available deed languages at Creative Commons instead link to the Commons templates. Or directly show them rendered in a popup (but replace all link with target=new in html).

neilk wrote:

For what it's worth, I think there is some question about what the correct URL is. I've been working with the lawyers here at the WMF and they are trying to protect us in the best way they know how.

The choice to link to the legalese version of the code was deliberate, for legal reasons. Although I agree it is bad to have a prominent link to something that's not very helpful.

Let me get some feedback on this from our legal team. This will take a while since we just went into the winter holidays.

Would it be bad if we had two links -- one to the human-readable code, the other to the legal code?

Yes, I meant to get rid of http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode and start using http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/deed.en

We never link to full legal code, I don't think it's useful to start doing it here.

On a technical note. We're getting more and more locations where we localize Creative Commons messages:

• The license extension used for the templates
• Upload wizard itself
• This configuration option

Would probably best to consolidate these translation messages.

saibotrash wrote:

(In reply to comment #5)

The choice to link to the legalese version of the code was deliberate, for
legal reasons. Although I agree it is bad to have a prominent link to something
that's not very helpful.

Our license templates (e.g. [[commons:Template:Cc-by-sa-3.0]]) link to the deed only which links to the legal code. In fact I think our license templates should also directly link to the legal code (which is what is -probably- relevant in the end) like we've done it after the last cc license template redesign at dewp: e.g. [[:de:Vorlage:Bild-CC-by-sa/3.0]]. There we decided that we only link to the legal code and emphasize directly in the license template that this is the legally binding stuff. Instead we did not link to the deed as it is more or less the same as our license template.
In order to be consistent and to avoid several places of config I had proposed above that you link to our license templates at commons instead - so you have diverted the task to them. And actually - those templates are that what is on the file page after uploader. That is what the uploader should see before upload because it will be there after upload and we want to make sure that he made a thoughtful decision by placing THIS template an the file.

I strongly disagree with linking to the full legal code.

It's not required: The Creative Commons licenses require linking to the URI. This is implemented by linking to the base url (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/), not the full legal code. Go check out all the nice wizards at http://creativecommons.org/ to see how Creative Commons recommends people to do this.

It's not user friendly at all: The legal code is unreadable compared to the deed. The legal code is only available in one language, the deed is available in several languages.

saibotrash wrote:

(In reply to comment #8)

I strongly disagree with linking to the full legal code.

With whom do you disagree strongly? ;-)

neilk wrote:

I'm forwarding the relevant bits of the discussion here to WMF legal team for their advice. They wanted the link to the legalese version because it protects us the best. But I agree it has significant usability issues.

neilk wrote:

Ok, it seems the lawyers are fine with linking to the CC human readable stuffs. Fixed in r107462. URLs verified to exist.

saibotrash wrote:

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ is english for me - it should instead be in German for me. That is why I said: link to our templates...

saibotrash wrote:

(In reply to comment #12)

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ is english for me - it should
instead be in German for me. That is why I said: link to our templates...

Or you can link to the translated deed (see the footer of each deed page).

Think of this: [[:commons:Commons_talk:Upload_Wizard#Upload_wizard_-_community_hackers_edition]] Just a reminder..

neilk wrote:

I'm not sure that our translations have the same legal force. The whole point of these links isn't usability (sadly) but being legally correct.

If we link to our templates, then it's two hops away from the "real" legal code.

The Creative Commons site does offer translations in some languages, but then it gets complicated to track those.

But I'll pass your comments onwards.

From both a legal _and_ usability point of view, the current templates aren't ideal, because 1) they don't include the full text of the human-readable deed (i.e. the "With the understanding that.." portion), 2) they are, as Neil says, two clicks away from the legal code.

The templates could be changed to link to the legal code (and that's a change you'd be well-positioned to make, Saibo, and it would be a good one), but even if they are, the templates are likely always going to be an abbreviated version of the full deed.

For the purposes of choosing a license, linking at least to the full, official deed which in turn always links to the full (English-only) legal code seems like the most sensible option.

The actual license names already have i18n messages, so how about adding a <messagekey>-url message for each license URL? Then translations of the deeds could be localized as appropriate, and would default to English if no localized version is available.

saibotrash wrote:

(In reply to comment #15)

The templates could be changed to link to the legal code (and that's a change
you'd be well-positioned to make, Saibo, and it would be a good one), but even
if they are, the templates are likely always going to be an abbreviated version
of the full deed.

I will not change the templates - too busy with rotating images... you know - the other WMF fuck-up ;)

(In reply to comment #15)

The actual license names already have i18n messages, so how about adding a
<messagekey>-url message for each license URL? Then translations of the deeds
could be localized as appropriate, and would default to English if no localized
version is available.

I do not know how the off-wiki translatewiki stuff works - a link to our template (or show it in a overlay-popup) would be easier... Do it the complicated way if you like. ;)

Adding the TranslateWiki people to see what their input on the translations.

Thanks Mark. Maarten Dammers is very qualified here, so he'll represent most of the views we would have.

Bumping down priority since core issue was addressed.

saibotrash wrote:

(In reply to comment #19)

core issue was addressed.

What was changed? Nothing, AFAIK. It is http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode at http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Preferences&uselang=de#mw-prefsection-uploads

Saibo, I get the link to the deed at that page, and at every other page in the tool. Is there any other part of this bug that hasn't been addressed, or can we close it? It seems like linking to the deed instead of the full legal code was the entire point, and we've done that.

Are the i18n people interested in changing the links to the localized ones? We could probably just add that in by using 'deed.' plus the language code, since if the page doesn't exist on the CC site it just redirects to 'deed.en' (the English version), which makes sense. Any objections to that?

saibotrash wrote:

Thanks, looks fixed (checked the prefs page) to me.(In reply to comment #21)

(In reply to comment #21)

Are the i18n people interested in changing the links to the localized ones? We
could probably just add that in by using 'deed.' plus the language code, since
if the page doesn't exist on the CC site it just redirects to 'deed.en' (the
English version), which makes sense. Any objections to that?

That would be very useful. (like I said in the initial comment "the translated deed should be linked").

Saibo, thanks for the idea. Patch here: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10955

It appears to work pretty well--'qqx' forwards back to 'en', 'en_GB' appears to have its own separate page, 'de' properly links to the German page and 'de_qq' links back to 'de' because 'qq' is not an acceptable subset of 'de'. Very good stuff, hopefully this helps with i18n of the licenses.

saibotrash wrote:

Looks good, thanks!

The following seems to be /not/ an issue here since everything gets properly escaped/passed by jquery.. but, in general, one has to be careful with the language code:

Opening

https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Preferences&uselang=%22%20%6f%6e%6d%6f%75%73%65%6f%76%65%72%3D%22%61%6c%65%72%74%28%27%79%6f%75%20%68%61%76%65%20%62%65%65%6e%20%78%73%73%65%64%21%27%29%22#mw-prefsection-uploads

and running

alert(mw.config.get( 'wgUserLanguage' ));

returns
" onmouseover="alert('you have been xssed!')

If that language code gets embedded into to some link ...

Thehelpfulonewiki wrote:

Reassigning to wikibugs-l per bug 37789

Patch merged, seems to solve the issue.