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Change Growth features parameters on Portuguese Wikipedia
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Description

Since we have been very successful with the new platform, and we have managed to attract a good number of mentors, would it be possible to increase the wgGEHelpPanelHelpDeskTitle for ptwiki to 100%?

In addition, we recently decided to move some pages to the "Ajuda" (help) domain, including our help desk. I would like to request the adjustment of wgGEHelpPanelReadingModeNamespaces for ptwiki, from "Wikipédia:Tire suas dúvidas" to "Ajuda:Tire suas dúvidas".

Event Timeline

Restricted Application added a subscriber: Aklapper. · View Herald TranscriptSun, Oct 11, 3:27 PM

would it be possible to increase the wgGEHelpPanelHelpDeskTitle for ptwiki to 100%?

I'm assuming you mean wgGEHomepageNewAccountEnablePercentage, which is currently set to 80%? Setting it to 100% is possible, but having 20% of new users not get the homepage is deliberate, so as to create a control group for the experiment. I would like @MMiller_WMF and @nettrom_WMF to sign off on going to 100% (which would eliminate the control group).

I would like to request the adjustment of wgGEHelpPanelReadingModeNamespaces for ptwiki, from "Wikipédia:Tire suas dúvidas" to "Ajuda:Tire suas dúvidas".

This appears to refer to wgGEHelpPanelHelpDeskTitle. I can change that, but right now Ajuda:Tire suas dúvidas doesn't exist yet. When do you plan on moving this page? Right now, our software doesn't deal well with the helpdesk being a redirect, so we'd either have to fix that bug, or coordinate so that you move the page at the same time as I change the configuration setting.

@Trizek-WMF can help sort this out and explain how the Growth team is thinking about this.

Setting it to 100% is possible, but having 20% of new users not get the homepage is deliberate, so as to create a control group for the experiment.

Oh, OK. Sorry for the confusion. I had seen that euwiki was set to 100 and I had assumed it was sort of customizable. So, I don't see a problem with staying at 80%, but is there a plan of how long the tests will stay? After that, the number could be raise to 100%.

I can change that, but right now Ajuda:Tire suas dúvidas doesn't exist yet. When do you plan on moving this page?

In fact, it should have already been moved (along with Wikipedia:Informe um erro), but I didn't because I predicted that an error like the one mentioned in T265404 would occur.

Right now, our software doesn't deal well with the helpdesk being a redirect, so we'd either have to fix that bug, or coordinate so that you move the page at the same time as I change the configuration setting.

I planned to coordinate that, making the move at the same time when the change is deployed.

Setting it to 100% is possible, but having 20% of new users not get the homepage is deliberate, so as to create a control group for the experiment.

Oh, OK. Sorry for the confusion. I had seen that euwiki was set to 100 and I had assumed it was sort of customizable. So, I don't see a problem with staying at 80%, but is there a plan of how long the tests will stay? After that, the number could be raise to 100%.

I'll leave this to @Trizek-WMF to answer.

I can change that, but right now Ajuda:Tire suas dúvidas doesn't exist yet. When do you plan on moving this page?

In fact, it should have already been moved (along with Wikipedia:Informe um erro), but I didn't because I predicted that an error like the one mentioned in T265404 would occur.

Right now, our software doesn't deal well with the helpdesk being a redirect, so we'd either have to fix that bug, or coordinate so that you move the page at the same time as I change the configuration setting.

I planned to coordinate that, making the move at the same time when the change is deployed.

If you're around now-ish, there's a deployment window coming up in a few minutes where we can make this change. I've also PMed you on IRC to see if you're around. If not, no worries, we can schedule another time. There are deployment windows every weekday (except Fridays) at 18:00 UTC and 23:00 UTC.

Change 633843 had a related patch set uploaded (by Catrope; owner: Catrope):
[operations/mediawiki-config@master] Rename GrowthExperiments helpdesk on ptwiki

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/633843

Change 633843 merged by jenkins-bot:
[operations/mediawiki-config@master] Rename GrowthExperiments helpdesk on ptwiki

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/633843

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2020-10-13T23:18:39Z] <catrope@deploy1001> Synchronized wmf-config/InitialiseSettings.php: Rename GrowthExperiments help desk on ptwiki (T265214) (duration: 01m 04s)

I ended up reaching @Albertoleoncio on IRC, and we successfully moved the help desk together.

@Albertoleoncio, I need a clarification about why you want to move to 100%.

At the moment, the features are available for 80% of new accounts. As Catrope explained in a previous message, we keep 20% of new accounts without the tools so that we can check if the tools have any bad impact compared to our control group (the 20%).

Basque Wikipedia is the only case with a 100% activation. We did it because they are a very small wiki and people create accounts on this wiki only because they attend editing workshops. We agreed to deploy the features to 100% of newcomers so that newcomers don't have to explore their preferences during workshop time.

At the moment, since our tools are really changing (they are prototypes), we need to keep a control group for a wiki as big as Portuguese.

We haven't explored yet when we would be able to switch from 80% to 100%, but your input is definitely welcomed there so that we can think about it and take a decision at some point (this decision requires time and various inputs though). Is it something your community discussed about? If so, can you share a link to the conversation? Thanks! :)

Albertoleoncio added a comment.EditedThu, Oct 15, 12:20 AM

@Albertoleoncio, I need a clarification about why you want to move to 100%.

Shortly: Because the new mentoring system miraculously solved an old problem we had :D

Long version: I don't know if you have noticed, but we already had a mentoring system before the implementation of the Growth Experiments. Although it was well structured, it was very inefficient due to the lack of mentors interested in adopting new users. Even though this problem had already been discussed several times on our village pump (1, 2, 3, 4, 5), things remained the same. To illustrate, this is the list of new users who were interested in being mentored, where they were never chosen by mentors. Allied to this, there was complaints that the system was underused by mentoree, because users were often chosen by mentors and simply disappeared after that. I was a little concerned about a "stampede of mentors" after the implementation of the new mentoring system, by making this process automatic, but instead, our mentoring queue are gone and the feedback from the community has been great so far.

At the moment, the features are available for 80% of new accounts. As Catrope explained in a previous message, we keep 20% of new accounts without the tools so that we can check if the tools have any bad impact compared to our control group (the 20%).

Basque Wikipedia is the only case with a 100% activation. We did it because they are a very small wiki and people create accounts on this wiki only because they attend editing workshops. We agreed to deploy the features to 100% of newcomers so that newcomers don't have to explore their preferences during workshop time.

At the moment, since our tools are really changing (they are prototypes), we need to keep a control group for a wiki as big as Portuguese.

As I had told Catrope, I have not understood that was a control group behind those missing 20%. I have assumed it was a security limit or something like that, so I started this ticket by asking "would it be possible"...

We haven't explored yet when we would be able to switch from 80% to 100%, but your input is definitely welcomed there so that we can think about it and take a decision at some point (this decision requires time and various inputs though). Is it something your community discussed about? If so, can you share a link to the conversation? Thanks! :)

I believe that only I am aware that the portal is activated for only 80% of new users. As it was more technical and I wasn't sure why, I ended up not sharing it. Since this is an experiment, I think we can work on it together and share these results with the community after a period (a few months, idk...) and better discuss the plausibility of increasing it to 100%.
So far, there has been no broad discussion related to growth experiments, or at least not formally. If you need inputs, I would recommend contacting Jo directly, as he is the most active user dealing with new users and the most active in answering questions in the HelpDesk.

@Albertoleoncio -- thanks for working with us on this feature and discussing it. @Trizek-WMF may have other thoughts and responses for you, but I have a question: you said "the feedback from the community has been great so far" about the mentoring feature. What are they saying? We are interested to know what is working well so that we can think about how to augment those good parts.

@Albertoleoncio, thank you for the details.

I very familiar with your mentoring issue! :) As you may know, I'm a volunteer on French Wikipedia. A few years ago, we made the same observation as yours. So we decided to have a more attractive message that starts with "hello, I'm [Mentor], and I can help you" and a direct link to the mentor's talk page. It led to more questions to mentors and the fall of the old, less efficient mentoring program -- which was built the same way as yours. So I'm really happy to know that assigning a mentor to each newcomer solves the old issue you had!

Concerning the 100% activation, the team has to discuss about it in details. If this topic of the 80%/100% raises on the community, would you please inform us about it?

If you need inputs, I would recommend contacting Jo directly, as he is the most active user dealing with new users and the most active in answering questions in the HelpDesk.

Thank you for the tip. I can't find if this user understands English, any idea?

What are they saying?

Actually, not a lot. I have heard comments from this topic in our village pump and informally, from our Telegram group. I think we can open a new topic, like a RfC, to see if our mentors have more opinions after those ~3 weeks. If you have some questions in mind, I can translate it and publish there.

@Albertoleoncio, thank you for the details.

If this topic of the 80%/100% raises on the community, would you please inform us about it?

Sure!

If you need inputs, I would recommend contacting Jo directly, as he is the most active user dealing with new users and the most active in answering questions in the HelpDesk.

Thank you for the tip. I can't find if this user understands English, any idea?

I think he does. I can step in, if necessary.