There are several problems unresolved on zhwiki. Though I remain neutral to the change, I do strongly oppose switching the default skin right away.

There are clearly no definitive consensus to deploy the skin yet, and there are still some problems to be addressed. It is not wise to deploy the skin under current circumstances, please don't rush it for the sake of the autonomy and willing of the Chinese Wikipedia community.

I would highly suggest against rushing to the deployment. We've got a lengthy list of concerns (that we cannot fix by ourselves) regarding Vector 2022.

Skin design concerns

1. Toolbar should not be split from the main menu, and put to right.
2. Interlanguage links should not move away from sister project links. It also takes more clicks to switch languages.
3. Can we disable the limited-width mode by default? ← since enwiki has done this I think this would be possible.
4. Move page indicators (GA, FA badges, etc) to the left of language switcher, instead of beneath the title.
5. Keep the old style in-page TOC. ← I haven't seen tickets on __TOC__ magic word, but I think we could just change the semantics of this magic word to force generate an in-page TOC at the position of the magic word along with the sidebar TOC.
6. Skin does not look good on mobile devices, paragraphs are pressed together, especially when there exists an infobox by the side.
7. Allow unregistered users to choose their own skins, at least back to legacy Vector.

Other general concerns

1. Not as simple as Timeless.
2. Is the skin stable enough?
3. Fix the concerns and people will naturally use the new skin. Not the other way round.
4. Less white space, more colors.
5. Editing on mobile is harder than on legacy Vector.
6. Some page translate tools cannot render the page under Vector 2022 correctly. ← I haven't be able to reproduce the problem. At least Google Translate works good for me on Joe Biden article. Is there a similar ticket?

Of course I don't expect every concern can be resolved. Some may conflict with other communities' concerns. At least we expect a response to these concerns before actual deployment.

Regardless of the fact that Vector-2022 still has many problems that have not been resolved on the Chinese Wikipedia, the Chinese Wikipedia has not produced a consensus to migrate to Vector-2022 at all. Is the Foundation or anyone going to force it through?

No need to be this hurry.

Hey everyone - thank you for your comments here. We're currently discussing possibilities of moving the deployment date further into the future. I hope to leave an update here later today, or Monday at the latest.

在T335886#8827599中，@MilkyDefer写道：

I would highly suggest against rushing to the deployment. We've got a lengthy list of concerns (that we cannot fix by ourselves) regarding Vector 2022.

Skin design concerns

1. Keep the old style in-page TOC. ← I haven't seen tickets on __TOC__ magic word, but I think we could just change the semantics of this magic word to force generate an in-page TOC at the position of the magic word along with the sidebar TOC.

I like in sidebar TOC.

1. Skin does not look good on mobile devices, paragraphs are pressed together, especially when there exists an infobox by the side.

Vector 2022 doesn't seem to be developed for mobile at all

1. Less white space, more colors.

Less white space and colors.

I can completely understand your team's eagerness to put Vector 2022 into wider usage, but I also hope that community consensus is respected in such case.

For design concerns, I think these have been discussed in English Wikipedia for a long time, so I don't think it's a big problem. However, as I mentioned in #wikipedia-zh, the real challenge is the compatibility of gadgets & user scripts that lack maintenance. We need to fix them before deployment so it won't introduce a lot of breakage.

A bunch of gadget compatibility issues should be resolved before the deployment.

Seems deployment is overdue. May we know when will Vector 2022 be officially deployed to zh-wiki, please?

@sgrabarczuk will clarify the state of gadgets on zhwiki that @Diskdance raised above to get a more realistic deployment date.

However I do think the deployment date shall take the local consensus into consideration. If this is Foundation's official plan, I sincerely invite your team to notify our community at zhwiki Village Pump, as the new skin is really incompatible for many gadgets/tools. Thank you.

In T335886#8926426, @Hamishcn wrote:

However I do think the deployment date shall take the local consensus into consideration. If this is Foundation's official plan, I sincerely invite your team to notify our community at zhwiki Village Pump, as the new skin is really incompatible for many gadgets/tools. Thank you.

To say frankly, I think they have reached out to local community multiple times. The real problem is that so many gadgets lack maintainers and (thus) proper maintenance. I think this needs to be improved in the future.

@Hamishcn which gadgets are "incompatible"? Could you please send me the links to the source code (wiki pages)? The differences between Vector and Vector 2022 from a technical point of view are very minor so I'm curious to understand this better. In one gadget I looked at it was a simple case of checking the skin key to make it work.

In T335886#8927481, @Jdlrobson wrote:

@Hamishcn which gadgets are "incompatible"? Could you please send me the links to the source code (wiki pages)? The differences between Vector and Vector 2022 from a technical point of view are very minor so I'm curious to understand this better. In one gadget I looked at it was a simple case of checking the skin key to make it work.

I'm sorry if my words may get you misunderstand. But the circumstance in zhwiki is the same as @Diskdance said above, we get nearly no user continuing works on the gadget and one gadget without maintenance would really go incompatible if the skin changed, at least from my point of view. Even if it’s just a mass replace in code, we still need someone to look into the gadgets to see and replace if needed.

Understood, but which gadgets? (I am a gadget developer and can help)

In T335886#8928151, @Jdlrobson wrote:

Understood, but which gadgets? (I am a gadget developer and can help)

One simple case on my mobile device, I turned off both "Responsive Mode" and "Limit width Mode" then set view desktop site in browser, the layout seems no change. When I click on "QuickEdit" button, the button somtimes pop onto where "TW" tab located (covered) at thus it caused that I either open the Twinkle tab or just no response and I need click on quickedit again to use it. I didn't meet this problem in old Vector under the same circumstance. It's not that incompatible but it's annoying.

Wish I can provide more examples when I back to keyboard cuz I am traveling outside with no laptop.

In T335886#8928763, @Hamishcn wrote:

In T335886#8928151, @Jdlrobson wrote:

Understood, but which gadgets? (I am a gadget developer and can help)

One simple case on my mobile device, I turned off both "Responsive Mode" and "Limit width Mode" then set view desktop site in browser, the layout seems no change. When I click on "QuickEdit" button, the button somtimes pop onto where "TW" tab located (covered) at thus it caused that I either open the Twinkle tab or just no response and I need click on quickedit again to use it. I didn't meet this problem in old Vector under the same circumstance. It's not that incompatible but it's annoying.

Wish I can provide more examples when I back to keyboard cuz I am traveling outside with no laptop.

The Vector 2022 and Vector legacy are not designed to be used on mobile device. See also https://w.wiki/6pxu (Question 6) and https://w.wiki/6pyC

IMO perhaps you can use Timeless which can be used on both mobile and desktop devices. Thanks.

In T335886#8930029, @SCP-2000 wrote:

In T335886#8928763, @Hamishcn wrote:

In T335886#8928151, @Jdlrobson wrote:

Understood, but which gadgets? (I am a gadget developer and can help)

One simple case on my mobile device, I turned off both "Responsive Mode" and "Limit width Mode" then set view desktop site in browser, the layout seems no change. When I click on "QuickEdit" button, the button somtimes pop onto where "TW" tab located (covered) at thus it caused that I either open the Twinkle tab or just no response and I need click on quickedit again to use it. I didn't meet this problem in old Vector under the same circumstance. It's not that incompatible but it's annoying.

Wish I can provide more examples when I back to keyboard cuz I am traveling outside with no laptop.

The Vector 2022 and Vector legacy are not designed to be used on mobile device. See also https://w.wiki/6pxu (Question 6) and https://w.wiki/6pyC

IMO perhaps you can use Timeless which can be used on both mobile and desktop devices. Thanks.

Please take new users into consideration, besides the default skin vector legacy will not get me into trouble above and I mostly browse Wikipedia onmy laptop, why I need to change my skin if it works perfectly? Don't split hairs and thank you.

why I need to change my skin if it works perfectly? Don't split hairs and thank you.

but you are changing your skin...? You are not using the default Minerva on a mobile device. You are intentionally using one of the Vector skins? Most new users will be using Minerva so I think new users have been taken into consideration here.

In T335886#8933417, @Jdlrobson wrote:

why I need to change my skin if it works perfectly? Don't split hairs and thank you.

but you are changing your skin...? You are not using the default Minerva on a mobile device. You are intentionally using one of the Vector skins? Most new users will be using Minerva so I think new users have been taken into consideration here.

this change is automatically by switching to desktop site and I know some users switched that in order to get better interaction with MediaWiki. Anyway, if my opinion is somehow unreasonable from your side you can just disregard my point of view.

Okay, let's keep the discussion on topic. Which gadgets are the blockers? Who should be responsible, and how to fix them?

@Hamishcn: Could you please answer the last question? Thanks.

This is blocked on the coordinates issue described here: https://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:%E4%BA%92%E5%8A%A9%E5%AE%A2%E6%A0%88/%E6%8A%80%E6%9C%AF&oldid=77974738#Vector%EF%BC%882022%EF%BC%89-%7BA%7Czh-hans:%E7%9A%AE%E8%82%A4;_zh-hant:%E5%A4%96%E8%A7%80;%7D-%E4%B8%8B%EF%BC%8CFA%E5%92%8CGA%E7%9A%84-%7BA%7Czh-hans:%E5%9B%BE%E6%A0%87;_zh-hant:%E5%9C%96%E7%A4%BA;_zh-hk:%E5%9C%96%E6%A8%99;%7D-%E4%BC%9A%E9%81%AE%E6%8C%A1%E2%80%9C%E8%B7%AF%E7%BA%BF%E5%9B%BE%E2%80%9D%E6%8C%89%E9%92%AE

I've descoped gotwikipedia due to T341253

Change 946997 had a related patch set uploaded (by Kimberly Sarabia; author: Kimberly Sarabia):

[operations/mediawiki-config@master] Deploy to CN language wikis

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/946997

Change 946997 merged by jenkins-bot:

[operations/mediawiki-config@master] Deploy to CN language wikis

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/946997

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2023-08-08T20:34:40Z] <urbanecm@deploy1002> Started scap: Backport for [[gerrit:946997|Deploy to CN language wikis (T335886)]]

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2023-08-08T20:36:08Z] <urbanecm@deploy1002> ksarabia and urbanecm: Backport for [[gerrit:946997|Deploy to CN language wikis (T335886)]] synced to the testservers mwdebug1001.eqiad.wmnet, mwdebug2002.codfw.wmnet, mwdebug2001.codfw.wmnet, mwdebug1002.eqiad.wmnet, and mw-debug kubernetes deployment (accessible via k8s-experimental XWD option)

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2023-08-08T20:43:49Z] <urbanecm@deploy1002> Finished scap: Backport for [[gerrit:946997|Deploy to CN language wikis (T335886)]] (duration: 09m 08s)