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Changing fall-back language and language name for aeb (Tunisian Language)
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Description

Author: geekemad

Description:
First of all, Tunisian Language has a wrong name (زَوُن) and it has no meaning. The correct name is 'Tounsi'. Please update it. (Please update the name in all Wikimedia files)
Secondly, fall-back language (Arabic) is not recommended, so please change it to French (fr).


Version: unspecified
Severity: normal

Details

Reference
bz68207

Event Timeline

bzimport raised the priority of this task from to Medium.Nov 22 2014, 3:27 AM
bzimport set Reference to bz68207.

Thanks for the report.

I always suspected that زَوُن is incorrect, and I tried asking people but nobody knew what's right.

The "Tounsi" name sounds correct, but is there any source for it, except the arb incubator Wikipedia?

geekemad wrote:

(In reply to Amir E. Aharoni from comment #1)

Thanks for the report.

I always suspected that زَوُن is incorrect, and I tried asking people but
nobody knew what's right.

The "Tounsi" name sounds correct, but is there any source for it, except the
arb incubator Wikipedia?

You can take a look in Wikipedia article about Tunisian Arabic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunisian_Arabic

Sadly, I can't give you any other source or even prove that I'm from a group working on Standard Tunisian.

What about the fall-back language?.. because in technology, in Tunisia we never ever use Arabic (Arabic is for religion), instead, we use 'Tunnisianized' french words, so it will be better to change it to french :)

geekemad wrote:

(In reply to Amir E. Aharoni from comment #1)

Thanks for the report.

I always suspected that زَوُن is incorrect, and I tried asking people but
nobody knew what's right.

The "Tounsi" name sounds correct, but is there any source for it, except the
arb incubator Wikipedia?

Note: we use Latin script = page direction is LTR.

geekemad wrote:

Hope this is fixed soon. it took so long time..

I got some further information about this from the reporter on IRC. Documenting it here. I'll bring this up with the language committee again,

GeekEmad Hello
Nikerabbit hi GeekEmad
GeekEmad Umm.. are there any devs here?
Nemo_bis Several
Nikerabbit devs, bots, translators, you name it
GeekEmad Very good, I think my problem will become solved very soon!
GeekEmad I contacted many people here to find a solution for this bug
GeekEmad It's with Tunisian (aeb), writing direction and language local name, both are wrong
GeekEmad So how can I find someone to solve this problem?
Nemo_bis IIRC there is already a patch for it
GeekEmad I can't get you ?
Nemo_bis https://old-bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=68207
GeekEmad Yes, it was me who reported it
Nemo_bis Or maybe not. Are you the same person as the reporter? You should ask aharoni on the bug if he's still working on it
Nemo_bis ok
aharoni Oh.
aharoni Well, it's actually good that you are here.
GeekEmad Yes, I'm Emad Adel
aharoni I wondered:
aharoni What is your spelling system based on?
GeekEmad writing system or spelling system?
aharoni Is it used customarily in Tunis anywhere outside of Wikipedia? Books, websites?
Nikerabbit I'm thinking maybe we should create aeb-Latn for clarity and have aeb fallback to that
GeekEmad The language itself, yes, but in different writing methods
GeekEmad Wait
aharoni I imagine that in Tunis the main written language is Standard Arabic, but correct me if I'm wrong, of course.
GeekEmad We made a standard writing method, a dictionary and grammar rules etc
aharoni Are there any books or websites that are written in the local language? Are they in the Arabic alphabet or the Latin alphabet?
aharoni Oh, very curious.
aharoni Who are "you"? A group of writers, or academics, or language activists? Do you have some website?
GeekEmad for books, there was no standard writing method in Latin, so they used arabic alphabets with some additional letters
GeekEmad for websites, most of people use latin with numbers
GeekEmad "Who are we?" a group of activists with some knowledge of Linguistics
GeekEmad "Do you have a website?" yeah, the first, is LTHumanists.org (League of Tunisian Humanists)
GeekEmad the second, if for rules of writing (beta) https://sites.google.com/site/stundardtunsi/
GeekEmad And for wikipedia now, we are using Latin alphabet, we will never change that
GeekEmad So?
GeekEmad @aharoni What do you think?

I brought up the Latin-script name to the discussion of the language committee.

Until a decision is made, I changed the current Arabic-script name, which is definitely incorrect, to 'تونسي'.

Amire80 renamed this task from Changing fall-back language and language name (زَوُن) for aeb (Tunisian Language) to Changing fall-back language and language name for aeb (Tunisian Language).Jan 24 2015, 2:38 PM
Amire80 removed Amire80 as the assignee of this task.
Amire80 set Security to None.
Amire80 changed the task status from Open to Stalled.Jul 3 2021, 2:05 PM

That's a pretty old request... Is anyone interested in working on this language at the moment? And in which alphabet?

I'd close this (as incomplete or invalid), it seems to be a pre-phabricator request and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Geekemad doesn't exist.

I'd close this (as incomplete or invalid), it seems to be a pre-phabricator request and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Geekemad doesn't exist.

But https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GeekEmad does exist. And I see aeb on his user page as a language. I left a message on his talk page.

Esc3300 updated the task description. (Show Details)

Thanks.

Well, this is a pretty old one. I was 15 when I opened the original ticket, so I probably didn't know much at the time.
Anyways, Tunisian Arabic has no standard writing system. Its native speakers rely on several ad-hoc systems for communicating, so it's hard to give a single correct spelling.
Tunisiya is a corpus of Tunisian Arabic texts that include data scraped from online forums, so it can be helpful here. Based on that source, the most popular Latin spelling is Tounsi and the most popular Arabic spelling is تونسي.
The Hebrew script is used by Tunisian Jews and officially supported by the government [citation needed], but I'm not sure if Judeo Tunisian shares the same ISO code as Tunisian Arabic. If that's the case, the Hebrew spelling would (probably) be תונסי.

Tunisiya is a corpus of Tunisian Arabic texts that include data scraped from online forums, so it can be helpful here. Based on that source, the most popular Latin spelling is Tounsi and the most popular Arabic spelling is تونسي.

The Arabic name is already written like that, so that's done.

The current Arabic spelling in MediaWiki is "Tûnsî". In the Incubator I also see "Tūnsī". How do you see in the corpus that "Tounsi" is more popular?

And which alphabet is more popular in general for this language—Arabic or Latin?

BTW, in the meantime, there is aeb-latn and aeb-arab

The current Arabic spelling in MediaWiki is "Tûnsî". In the Incubator I also see "Tūnsī". How do you see in the corpus that "Tounsi" is more popular?

You can use the search bar on that website to find the most popular spelling. Tūnsi and Tûnsi are linguistic/scientific spellings that you don't find in any actual corpora. BTW, another corpus is this one. It focuses on Latin script.

And which alphabet is more popular in general for this language—Arabic or Latin?

Both. Since there is no standard register, you can find both scripts used for different purposes.

Summary: تونسي for aeb-arab (which is already the case) and Tounsi for aeb-latn, since it's the most used spelling nation-wide. Other spellings are either specific to linguistics or to a small group of people.