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Sandbox link should follow redirects
Open, Stalled, LowPublic

Description

Some users already have a sandbox page at a different location from the default, and have set up a redirect from the default sandbox location to their custom sandbox location so that clicking on the "Sandbox" link enabled by the SandboxLink extension takes them straight to their custom sandbox. For example, I have User:Mr. Stradivarius/sandbox set to redirect to User:Mr. Stradivarius/Sandbox. However, the extension doesn't follow redirects, which means an extra click and an extra page load before users doing this will reach their sandboxes. Unless there is a pressing reason not to, I think we should change the extension to always follow redirects so that user sandbox locations can be more customisable.

See this Village Pump discussion for another example of a user doing this.

Details

Related Gerrit Patches:
mediawiki/extensions/SandboxLink : masterFollow sandbox link redirects

Event Timeline

MrStradivarius raised the priority of this task from to Needs Triage.
MrStradivarius updated the task description. (Show Details)
MrStradivarius added a subscriber: MrStradivarius.
Restricted Application added a subscriber: Aklapper. · View Herald TranscriptMay 16 2015, 2:10 AM

Change 211362 had a related patch set uploaded (by Mr. Stradivarius):
Follow sandbox link redirects

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/211362

Good point. I agree that there's no need to make it even harder for new users to get used to Wikipedia, so that means the answer will be to make the sandbox link configurable. Perhaps just implement this as a user script rather than clutter up Special:Preferences?

Perhaps supress the creation of a redirect by default when moving a draft.

I've created a simple gadget to remove "&redirect=no" from the sandbox link at User:Mr. Stradivarius/gadgets/FollowSandboxRedirect.js.

Edokter makes a good point, at the AFC Help desk and at the Teahouse "How do I get back to my sandbox?" is a very common question.
A move from userspace to mainspace should not create a redirect, it should leave just a plain wikilink: "The draft that was here is now at [[Your new article]]"

EoRdE6 added a subscriber: EoRdE6.May 17 2015, 5:04 AM

I have suggested allowing non-admins to be allowed to suppress redirects in certain moves (like drafts accidentally placed in the main space and user pages in the main space) but it was shot down on meta. I do oppose making the link follow redirects, I agree it always manages to confuse new editors.

Let it not follow redirects by default but give users such as myself an option to enable the redirect.

I think the shortest path is, as @EoRdE6 points out, is to allow users to supress redirects, but only when moving from their own user space. What were the reasons this was shot down?

EoRdE6 added a comment.EditedMay 17 2015, 1:38 PM

@Edokter T76266 for recently created and T71162 for userspace moves. And this badly worded proposal by myself.

Yeah, the extension is explicitly not following redirects in this link for the stated reasons (users wouldn't know how to get back to their sandbox if they moved a page out from it). If we want to do this, it would be blocked on making it possible for anyone to move a page from their sandbox to elsewhere without leaving a redirect (and making this the default behavior).

matmarex changed the task status from Open to Stalled.May 19 2015, 2:41 PM
matmarex triaged this task as Low priority.
matmarex set Security to None.
Dodger67 added a comment.EditedMay 20 2015, 7:01 AM

We are drifting away from the actual issue - the fact that the default Sandbox user menu link does not work for experienced users who have a sandbox setup not at the default location.
To recap:

  1. Until recently a redirect at the default location worked for these users.
  2. Redirect suppression is a logical and neccessary thing to do for new editors, so that they can easily find their sandboxes even after a draft has been moved from there.
  3. The problem is that advanced users have no way to disable the redirect suppression, this used to be possible through a Gadgets setting.

All this talk about allowing move without redirect is a separate issue, can we please get back on topic here.

My recommended solution for your issue is to just move your sandbox to the standard name. As an experienced user that should pose no problems for you.

Alternatively, you add a small script to your common.js that would modify the link to suit your requirements. This shouldn't be a problem for an experienced user either, here's a snippet you can use:

$( function () { $( '#pt-sandbox a' ).attr( 'href', '/wiki/Special:MyPage/Sandbox' ); } )

OK so what I'm hearing here is "sod off and fix it yourself" - this attitude by coders towards users is one of the major drivers of the decline of Wikipedia. Thanks for nothing!

You're welcome. I'll do my best not to help you in the future lest that bring more unpleasantness my way.

Aklapper added a subscriber: Qgil.May 20 2015, 12:47 PM

@Dodger67: Reasons for the current behavior were given in T99335#1296284 and workarounds were also provided in T99335#1298643. Generalizations like "coders vs users" are not helpful; while constructive criticism that picks up and replies to the provided arguments for design decisions is welcome. Thanks for your understanding!

Change 211362 abandoned by Mr. Stradivarius:
Follow sandbox link redirects

Reason:
Per the bug, implementing this patch as-is might unfairly impact new users, so abandoning until a better solution can be found.

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/211362

matmarex: Dodger67's original post at enwiki's Village Pump said that he had a "a 'grammar-nazi' dislike of page titles that start with a lower case letter", which would explain why he didn't think your suggestion to move his sandbox to the standard (uncapitalised) name was helpful. I can appreciate his viewpoint, as all of my user subpages on enwiki start with capitals as well (although I just did what seemed to be the standard practice at the time, and I don't consider myself a grammar nazi; in fact, I have sometimes been known to use the cereal comma).