# User Details

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Oct 31 2014, 9:09 AM (438 w, 3 d)
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MediaWiki User

# Oct 17 2022

fredw renamed T320910: Remove namedspaces length values in MathML from Deprecate/Remove namedspaces length values in MathML to Remove namedspaces length values in MathML.
fredw added a comment to T320910: Remove namedspaces length values in MathML.

To elaborate a bit, this was just an example. More generally, we should use the substitution described here:

# Sep 7 2017

fredw added a comment to T175060: [itex] does not render correctly on Android app preview.

# Feb 8 2017

Le 08/02/2017 à 19:13, Physikerwelt a écrit :

@Jdlrobson https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/p/Jdlrobson/ @fredw
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/p/fredw/ is still actively maintaining the
package as far as I know... how would you change the selector?

Adapting the CSS and updating the extension would be straightforward,
hopefully this can be done in a backward compatible way (i.e. the new
version of the addon would still work will previous versions of mediawiki).

# Oct 13 2016

fredw added a comment to T147319: No MathML rendering in Firefox - SVG or PNG is used.

Le 13/10/2016 à 11:58, Physikerwelt a écrit :

However, I think we should enable MathML without plugin (at least for some known
good browser / OS combinations).
@fredw https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/p/fredw/ What are your thoughts on that?

I don't think things have changed much since the last time you asked.
This will require coordination between various actors, so we should
probably discuss that in the MathML association.

# Jun 2 2016

fredw added a comment to T136709: Make math using MathML / SVG / PNG mode print properly.

Just a note: some people use CSS to force native MathML to be displayed
(in a user stylesheet, addon etc) so the optimization of not loaded SVG
images still makes sense for them.

# Apr 24 2016

fredw added a comment to T132607: Increase font size for MathML.

Le 24/04/2016 20:32, Edokter a écrit :

@fredw, the current release version (45) still uses the internal font stack, which is why I find it odd we override it in the first place. But if the internal stack is removed, we may as well leave it.

I think the rule was added in MediaWiki before
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=947654 was fixed. The
internal stack is unlikely to be removed soon (except if in the very
long term all text fonts get a math companion and then Gecko can switch
to math font "automatically").

fredw added a comment to T132607: Increase font size for MathML.

On
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_Diskussion:Common.css#Schriftgr.C3.B6.C3.9Fe_f.C3.BCr_MathML,
there is a reference to
https://dxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/modules/libpref/init/all.js
and to the x-math properties.

# Apr 13 2016

fredw added a comment to T132607: Increase font size for MathML.

Note that this should not be needed if the math font style is consistent
with the one of the text font (e.g. Latin Modern with Latin Modern
Math). The percent is a bit arbitrary and won't work for everybody.
Unfortunately very few standard fonts have a math companion and few math
fonts are available on OS at the moment...

# Mar 5 2016

fredw added a comment to T128950: Make SVG with PNG fallback mode.

Also, note that one can use CSS to select between MathML, SVG or PNG:

# Jan 26 2016

fredw added a comment to T105311: The MathML code for \not should not use <mpadded> hack.

menclose updiagonalstrike represents some content that is struck out and
this can be exposed as it into the accessible tree. ATs do not need any
heuristics to transmit that presentation to the user and following's
Abraham Nemeth idea it is then up to the user to deduce the mathematical
meaning. This is the best you can do with presentation MathML to make
things accessible. As a comparison, MathJax's solution is really a
visual-only hack: a zero-width BIG SOLIDUS followed by the content.

# Dec 25 2015

fredw added a comment to T122400: Increased line height when use formula inside a paragraph.

Note that this is already fixed in Debian testing. I'm note familiar
with Ubuntu process and how they import Debian's packages but the next
release Ubuntu 16.04 LTS will be published next April:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ubuntu_releases#Ubuntu_16.04_LTS_.28Xenial_Xerus.29

# Dec 24 2015

fredw added a comment to T122400: Increased line height when use formula inside a paragraph.

This is a bug in the Latin Modern Math version distributed by Ubuntu.

# Nov 10 2015

I think unicode-math is also based on David Carlisle's unicode.xml so that should be the same commands. (but please check)

I don't have preference, but please check http://ctan.org/pkg/unicode-math and their GitHub repo.

# Nov 2 2015

fredw added a comment to T106890: smallmatrix not very small in MathML.

Again, there are two bugs here:

# Nov 1 2015

fredw added a comment to T106890: smallmatrix not very small in MathML.

I checked the http://www.mathmlcentral.com/Tools/FromMathML.jsp to generate a png from the first mathml input and it looks about right.

fredw added a comment to T106890: smallmatrix not very small in MathML.

See https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T106890#1483157 for how force an increment of scriptlevel (btw, it would probably more convenient if the scriptlevel attribute was allowed on the mtable element...)

fredw added a comment to T106890: smallmatrix not very small in MathML.

Any updates here https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1187682 seems to be stalled.

# Sep 23 2015

fredw added a comment to T106973: Always use Latin Modern Math for native MathML.

I removed my comment about Windows line spacing bug has it is fixed in Gecko 41. Latin Modern Math should now work on all platforms. For details, see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-math/2015Sep/0031.html

fredw updated the task description for T106973: Always use Latin Modern Math for native MathML.

# Sep 2 2015

If you are talking about the "SVG fallback" of the MathML mode, then that is expected: different CSS properties are necessary to change the color of SVG paths. This does not happen in when "MathML" is really used since it just inherits the text colors.

# Aug 7 2015

fredw added a comment to T99369: Remove client-side MathJax rendering mode.

Why is SVG fallback now broken for Chrome-like browsers?

fredw renamed T99369: Remove client-side MathJax rendering mode from Remove MathJax rendering mode to Remove client-side MathJax rendering mode.

# Jul 27 2015

fredw added a comment to T99369: Remove client-side MathJax rendering mode.

Finally, I realize we have a history and I don't want to start a fight. But @fredw, could you please *not* speculate about MathJax technology or opinions of MathJax team members? That can mislead people (just like inaccurate comments about Firefox MathML support can). If there's a question about how MathJax or MathJax-node works, we're happy to answer it.

# Jul 26 2015

fredw updated the task description for T106973: Always use Latin Modern Math for native MathML.
fredw added a project to T106973: Always use Latin Modern Math for native MathML: Math.
fredw added a comment to T106890: smallmatrix not very small in MathML.

In MathML the size reduction of \begin{smallmatrix} compared to \begin{matrix} is only about 75%. In the SVG mode its more like 65% and in PNG mode its close to 50%. It looks like the font size is not decreased at all, whereas in other modes a smaller font is used.

fredw added a comment to T106890: smallmatrix not very small in MathML.

Just to be sure to chatch the right one you mean this https://github.com/mathjax/MathJax/issues/839 bug?

fredw added a comment to T106890: smallmatrix not very small in MathML.

Not beforehand, but if you search "displaystyle" on the MathJax github issue or on the MathML mailing list, you should be able to find it.

fredw added a comment to T106890: smallmatrix not very small in MathML.

@fredw: So to fix this problem we could include

math {
line-height: normal;
}

To our custom math.css?

fredw added a comment to T106890: smallmatrix not very small in MathML.

Regarding the font-size itself: this seems to be a bug in MathJax. If I set <mstyle scriptlevel="+1"> around the <mtable>, I get the expected text size reduction in Gecko.

fredw added a comment to T106890: smallmatrix not very small in MathML.

line-height: normal also improves the linespacing of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E8_%28mathematics%29 but I'm not sure what's expected for the font-size.

fredw added a comment to T106890: smallmatrix not very small in MathML.

So I'm wondering whether it's a bug in Gecko or whether the style on the Wiki page is interfering with the native MathML rendering...

fredw added a comment to T106890: smallmatrix not very small in MathML.

Here is what I get for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecke_operator using Gecko:

# Jul 25 2015

fredw added a comment to T99369: Remove client-side MathJax rendering mode.

What is stopping us from using MathJax to generate HTML/CSS and send that to the browser?

fredw added a comment to T99369: Remove client-side MathJax rendering mode.

@SalixAlba: Thank you for your comment.

# Jul 24 2015

fredw added a comment to T106855: Extra space after equations in MathML mode..

I think it was https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T74806

fredw added a comment to T106855: Extra space after equations in MathML mode..

Moritz: I think I already reported this bug in the past. IIRC, it was due to the fact that mathoid puts space in the source code around the math output...

fredw updated subscribers of T106855: Extra space after equations in MathML mode..
fredw added a comment to T99369: Remove client-side MathJax rendering mode.

As I read the comments, it seems that people have limited knowlegde & distorted information about the MathJax / KaTeX / MediaWiki / Browser developments and, sadly, know almost nothing about the technical implementation details... so I'm not sure it is very efficient to try arguing or countering the falsehoods about MathML. Instead, I'll just write one post with a few (hopefully helpful) remarks on MediaWiki math and then go back to doing more constructive work for math rendering on the Web...

# Jul 22 2015

fredw added a comment to T105316: Need a way to write multiscripts around an expression.

I don't know what you mean by "how MathJax looks now and how it should look like". As said in the first comment, it's not a problem with the visual rendering but with the way the generated MathML, which has bad semantics and so makes things hard for assistive technologies.

fredw added a comment to T105320: Weird examples of limits on Help:Displaying_a_formula.

Does anyone know about this special notation for limits? This looks a TeX hack to achieve a purely visual distinction for "alternative limits style".

# Jul 9 2015

fredw renamed T74141: The MathML mode does not work well when doing touch screen navigation in VoiceOver+WebKit from The MathML mode does not work well with VoiceOver + touch screen to The MathML mode does not work well when doing touch screen navigation in VoiceOver+WebKit.

So since this bug was confusely used by the MathJax team to justify their refusal to provide MathML in the DOM by default in order to help assistive technologies, I'd like to clarify the issue:

# Apr 8 2015

fredw committed rGMATa350d2a271c9: Add TeX annotation to MathML again (authored by fredw).
Add TeX annotation to MathML again
fredw committed rGMAT759c26e7c87a: Apply PNG post-processing compression to image fonts. #44 (authored by fredw).
Apply PNG post-processing compression to image fonts. #44
fredw committed rGMAT5828d635986c: Merge branch 'master' into bidi (authored by fredw).
Merge branch 'master' into bidi
fredw committed rGMATa2ca632cac1b: Merge pull request #662 from fred-wang/issue611 (authored by fredw).
Merge pull request #662 from fred-wang/issue611
fredw committed rGMATef36d4b2a5ce: Repack and combine. #534 (authored by fredw).
Repack and combine. #534
fredw committed rGMAT705548fc371e: Update README-branch.txt (authored by fredw).
fredw committed rGMAT337361c1cd4c: Regenerate the fonts. #611 (authored by fredw).
Regenerate the fonts. #611
Regenerate the font data (no longer in sync with the font files!) #611
fredw committed rGMAT74c270f3c9db: ... and now fix the issue myself. #650 (authored by fredw).
... and now fix the issue myself. #650
fredw committed rGMAT7364fffae2c8: Add caligraphic-bold and tex-oldstylebold. #612, #611 (authored by fredw).
Add caligraphic-bold and tex-oldstylebold. #612, #611
fredw committed rGMAT6448c0ce914c: Merge pull request #643 from fred-wang/issue530 (authored by fredw).
Merge pull request #643 from fred-wang/issue530
fredw committed rGMATb3867893b2bd: Adding remap to latin modern and gyre fonts. #611 (authored by fredw).
Adding remap to latin modern and gyre fonts. #611
fredw committed rGMAT767225cd3e21: Revert third-party fix for lack of CLA #650 (authored by fredw).
Revert third-party fix for lack of CLA #650
fredw committed rGMAT9702afba15b2: Increase version numbers for 2.3 ; update languages. #534 (authored by fredw).
Increase version numbers for 2.3 ; update languages. #534
fredw committed rGMATd1822362f2e2: Merge pull request #660 from fred-wang/issue656 (authored by fredw).
Merge pull request #660 from fred-wang/issue656
fredw committed rGMAT62afeb2ad516: Update fontdata to improve the list of stretchy operators. #611 (authored by fredw).
Update fontdata to improve the list of stretchy operators. #611
fredw committed rGMATe3a431826ccb: Add some remap for Euler fonts. #611 (authored by fredw).
Add some remap for Euler fonts. #611
fredw committed rGMAT133df1675c47: Fix many issues with Asana Font. #611 (authored by fredw).
Fix many issues with Asana Font. #611
fredw committed rGMAT53b1201b54d7: Merge pull request #659 from fred-wang/issue636 (authored by fredw).
Merge pull request #659 from fred-wang/issue636
MathMenu: fix typo in STIXLocal key, add strings for the new Web fonts. #656
fredw committed rGMAT0c85be88e0bb: Merge pull request #655 from jdh8/develop (authored by fredw).
Merge pull request #655 from jdh8/develop
fredw committed rGMAT53b3160dfd17: MathJax.isPacked and MathJax.AuthorConfig mixup. #636 (authored by fredw).
MathJax.isPacked and MathJax.AuthorConfig mixup. #636
fredw committed rGMAT6cd37d02f989: Merge pull request #652 from fred-wang/issue530 (authored by fredw).
Merge pull request #652 from fred-wang/issue530
fredw committed rGMAT2b903c431056: Localisation updates from http://translatewiki.net. #530 (authored by fredw).
Add the matchFontHeight options to unpacked/config/default.js #639
fredw committed rGMAT139b799dbff8: Localisation updates from http://translatewiki.net. #530 (authored by fredw).
fredw committed rGMATad33b1f40cf1: Merge pull request #635 from fred-wang/v2.3-beta (authored by fredw).
Merge pull request #635 from fred-wang/v2.3-beta
fredw committed rGMAT359c61a82749: Merge pull request #637 from fred-wang/bidi (authored by fredw).
Merge pull request #637 from fred-wang/bidi
fredw committed rGMATb73eafd431cb: Bump version numbers. #534 (authored by fredw).
Bump version numbers. #534
fredw committed rGMAT1ca86fbc6b32: Remove extra comma. #627 (authored by fredw).
Remove extra comma. #627
fredw committed rGMAT90749a7afefc: Fix WARNINGs generated by the MathJax packer. #534 (authored by fredw).
Fix WARNINGs generated by the MathJax packer. #534
fredw committed rGMAT72aa13ee8912: Localisation updates from http://translatewiki.net. #530 (authored by fredw).
fredw committed rGMAT28afef1a95ef: mglyph messages: pass the def to the MML.Error function. #627 (authored by fredw).
mglyph messages: pass the def to the MML.Error function. #627
fredw committed rGMAT542bce301d42: Enable English strings in the localization test page. #626 (authored by fredw).
Enable English strings in the localization test page. #626
fredw committed rGMATa259bcba8865: Merge pull request #634 from fred-wang/bidi (authored by fredw).
Merge pull request #634 from fred-wang/bidi
fredw committed rGMAT6f3051e98916: follow-up (authored by fredw).
follow-up
fredw committed rGMAT461f9b46140d: Update Farsi localization. #530 (authored by fredw).
Update Farsi localization. #530
fredw committed rGMAT4400d42d5777: Merge pull request #633 from fred-wang/issue530 (authored by fredw).
Merge pull request #633 from fred-wang/issue530
fredw committed rGMATdc1364ec2574: Merge pull request #629 from fred-wang/issue530 (authored by fredw).
Merge pull request #629 from fred-wang/issue530