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Integrating ContentTranslation within Wikisource
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Description

To ease translation works of Wikisource community, it would be great to have the Translate extension installed on their instances.

Having simply the interface would already be great, enabling automatic translation when possible would be even better.

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@Psychoslave did you discuss the issue with the Wikisource (the multilang one?) community?

Is this meant to relate to the translation of main/page namespace pages, or Wikisource: ns pages.

Multi-lingual wikisource (oldwikisource) is generally for wikis without their own langauge wiki, or for multilingual works, so adding a translation tool there doesn't seem particularly within scope.

If you are looking to translate works into the language of an existing language wiki, those translated works would belong at the target language.

I know that English Wikisource will take WS-conributed translations in its page namespace, as such that the Page: ns will show the foreign language book image, and allow for the work to be translated. These works would be transcluded at enWS into the Translation: ns.

With that knowledge, what is the plan to involve the extension with the Wikisources?

Well, having ability to directly compare the original book image along the community translation is fine.

Now having the ability to translate proof-readed books with the same tools as what is available to translate Wikipedia articles would also be great. That is with the same interface as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ContentTranslation

So, this would give community ability to use the process :

Commons				Some Wikisource linguistic version			Target language version Wikisource 
upload work images	⇒ proof read & wikification in the original language(s) ⇒ 	translation

I know that the community is all for the translation of works from one language to another. We are needing to know that if we are working with a scanned text, that what is being proposed is not going to clash with the ProofreadPage extension, and is going to give us something measurably better than what currently exists.

A live example of how an image from commons currently displays in our Page: ns,

https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Sandbox1.djvu/3&action=edit&redlink=1
(if you save and create, please mark for {{sdelete}} afterwards)

and from there they are transcluded into the main ns (where english to english) and the translation: ns (other language to English). As it uses our Proofread system it enables as to have a two step validation process. All this would happen with the same File: at Commons, though would need an index page at each wiki.

Users can easily step through all the pages of a work in a familiar environment to our transcribers

[This process is not so aligned for native-digital works, though we haven't had that expressed as an interest at this point.]

@psychslave. Have you an example where you are see something that you wish to translate that could not work under our scheme, or could work better in your scheme?

What scheme are you talking about? Currently it doesn't seem to exist any integrated tool for helping translation, does it?

Proofread is great for proof reading, so it doesn't include tools to help for translation. It won't suggest any translation through Apertium for example. It doesn't even provide side by side source text/proposed translation, as far as I see.

Questions

Are you talking about translating off the image or off the transcluded text?

To which namespace are you looking to have your translated works added? And I presume that you are talking about xwiki translations.

How are you going to ensure that a 300 page work is going to be translated? Rather than someone coming and translating two lines or ten pages, and nothing happening again? Abandoned!

How are you going to ensure that the work being translated is suitably ready to be translated where it has been proofread or validated?

How are you going to ensure that the translation itself is proofread and validated?

My opinion

There are many matters missing from your proposal. Matters that have been faced and addressed by the community in translation previously.

In our scheme a translation can be undertake without a paired text existing at another wiki, we just need the image at Commons. I am not saying that there is not scope to have better means to translate other works, it just needs a better plan than a phabricator ticket to add an extension to the wiki.

I think that the proposal is need of a discussion outside of phabricator. It needs a discussion by the many WSes, and if it is something to progress it probably should be listed as a topic for Wikisource meet-up at Wikimania 2016.

In the scheme of the fixes that we need and have requested, this request in this form will fall low in the priority list, in my opinion. There is no community consensus to progress.

Billinghurst triaged this task as Lowest priority.Feb 6 2016, 11:24 AM

This is about translation of works. Translating already proofred transcluded text would be preferable, as it would allow to give dedicated tools, like automatic translation proposal, context annotation, etc.

The translation works may have their own namespace, but putting it in the main one may be enough.

No waranty can be given for any wiki work achievement, that's the community which will do or not do this or that work. Having dedicated translation tool may nevertheless be of a great help. Without them there's no greater guarantee, but making contributors like easier improve chance that they will do the work.

The proofread validation is already there, so there's really no problem here, is there? That's not about removing tools which are their for one specific work, but adding other for an other kin of work.

Proofread and validation of translation is already included in translation help tools that are active on some other wiki, like Wikipedia. Anyone can check.

Discussion about the topic anywhere is fine, and in the same time gathering ideas and defining tasks on phabricator to achieve progress on the topic would also be fine.

Now having the ability to translate proof-readed books with the same tools as what is available to translate Wikipedia articles would also be great. That is with the same interface as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ContentTranslation

That's not the Translate extension and there is no code yet for this functionality, hence this is not a shell request but a feature request.

As for the Translate extension (the one which provides Special:Translate to translate Page in Page/en, Page/ru, Page/la etc.), any individual wiki can easily ask and get it after a local discussion.

Nemo_bis renamed this task from Integrating translation tools within Wikisource to Integrating ContentTranslation within Wikisource.Feb 12 2016, 2:29 PM
Manojk added a subscriber: Manojk.Feb 13 2016, 4:18 AM
Yann added a subscriber: Yann.Feb 15 2016, 9:10 PM