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Enable VisualEditor for future newly registered users on Dutch Wikipedia
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Description

Please enable VisualEditor for future newly registered users on Dutch Wikipedia. Future here means after the creation date of this task. Please keep VisualEditor hidden for logged in users who registered prior to the creation of this task. VisualEditor will remain opt-in for them. This also means that future newly registered users can opt-out.

Elitre made an offer on this page. There a handful of people expressed their favor.

The creation of this phabricator task is to express interest in VisualEditor and interest in continued support to devote resources on further development.

As the task creator I couldn't identify real blockers for deployment now. I can identify some people who want to block development, but that is something different.

Some believe T64147 is a blocker. VisualEditor doesn't output each template parameter on a new line. Frankly, Formatting style is a matter of taste or preference. I don't belief newly registered users will start adding complex infoboxes or other templates with VisualEditor. We'll have to watch how often newly registered editors, or after how many edits, will start adding complex templates with VisualEditor.

T51400 or largethumb is been worked on. Newly registered editors will not be able to edit pictures with attributes set by largethumb template. We'll have to watch how many newly registered editors will complain about not being able to edit certain pictures with VisualEditor (and for which reason).

Wikimedia Nederland is trying to implement an Education Program. Representatives of universities and colleges almost always ask if a rich editing experience can be provided to their students in stead of wiki text editing. VisualEditor for future newly registered editors is required for the next steps in implementing an Education program in the Netherlands. This is what the board member responsible for Education program tells me.

This roll out should be a time limited test, for example by automatic roll back after a couple of weeks. In case something really goes wrong an orderly and timely rollback should be possible.

This task has been created by me as a Wikipedia volunteer. Wikimedia Nederland does not decide for the community of Dutch Wikipedia. The community of the Dutch Wikipedia decides for itself whether it wants something deployed or not following processes and procedures set by the Wikimedia Foundation on one side and the editor community on the other side.

Event Timeline

AdHuikeshoven assigned this task to Jdforrester-WMF.
AdHuikeshoven raised the priority of this task from to Normal.
AdHuikeshoven updated the task description. (Show Details)
AdHuikeshoven added a project: VisualEditor.
AdHuikeshoven added a subscriber: AdHuikeshoven.
Restricted Application added a subscriber: Aklapper. · View Herald TranscriptNov 22 2015, 10:21 PM
Restricted Application added a subscriber: Matanya. · View Herald TranscriptNov 22 2015, 10:30 PM
Elitre added a subscriber: Elitre.Nov 23 2015, 7:09 AM

Thanks for filing this.
Here's what we could do:

  1. enable VE to newly registered users ASAP for two weeks, to capitalize on the Prize momentum; or
  2. give the community a week to discuss this further, and if they're still interested afterwards, enable VE to newly registered users for the month of December.

Please let us know what you choose.

Probably best is to wait until Wednesday wikimeet after the award ceremony
before deciding on anything.
Op 23 nov. 2015 09:04 schreef "Elitre" <no-reply@phabricator.wikimedia.org>:

Elitre added a comment.
Thanks for filing this.
Here's what we could do:

  1. enable VE to newly registered users ASAP for two weeks, to capitalize

on the Prize momentum; or

  1. give the community a week to discuss this further, and if they're still

interested afterwards, enable VE to newly registered users for the month of
December.
Please let us know what you choose.
TASK DETAIL

https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T119347

EMAIL PREFERENCES

https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: Jdforrester-WMF, Elitre
Cc: Elitre, Krenair, Matanya, Aklapper, AdHuikeshoven, Luke081515, Jrf,
Husun1297, Snowolf, Ryasmeen, Etonkovidova, Swainr, Jdforrester-WMF

There need to be a community vote first. The people who voiced their opinion are not a true reflection of the community. This will likely become yet another drama because the community wasn't correctly informed. If required I can help organising a vote.

Romaine added a subscriber: Romaine.EditedNov 23 2015, 1:55 PM

Wikimedia Nederland is trying to implement an Education Program.

You are now bypassing the community and that is not helping to implement an Education Program.

Representatives of universities and colleges almost always ask if a rich editing experience can be provided to their students in stead of wiki text editing.

Interesting, I am doing currently the most education programs in the Netherlands and this is not said in the universities and colleges.

VisualEditor for future newly registered editors is required for the next steps in implementing an Education program in the Netherlands. This is what the board member responsible for Education program tells me.

This is nonsense, for the education program it is certainly not required. It can be helpful, but not required. The board member responsible for the education program has a limited view on the situation and has not been involved in most projects in the Netherlands.

This task has been created by me as a Wikipedia volunteer.

As Wikipedia volunteer you should know about how to do this and not acting completely on your own ignoring the community of the Dutch Wikipedia. You try to bypass the community because you think you are right, and you do not care about what the community thinks of it.

Thanks for filing this.
Here's what we could do:

  1. enable VE to newly registered users ASAP for two weeks, to capitalize on the Prize momentum; or
  2. give the community a week to discuss this further, and if they're still interested afterwards, enable VE to newly registered users for the month of December.

Please let us know what you choose.

Both are not an option. Earlier the community had a voting and made very clear that the visual editor needs to be improved first before it can be implemented. The minimal improvements required and requested have not been executed yet. If anyone thinks the VisualEditor should be implemented anyhow, a voting is required as long as the troubles with the VisualEditor has not been cleared.

In T119387#1825155, @Elitre wrote:
Among the other things, I'm personally musing on defining which wikis I'd like to focus on and provide particular support to.
My current reading of T119347, among other things, makes me inclined to think that our energies are better spent on communities which truly need and appreciate our efforts to go beyond mere words.

Reporting Romaine's comment from https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T119387#1825232:

So when we view development in a critical but serious and constructive way, we are not given any support?
Is that what you try to say?
Please correct me if my interpretation is wrong. I sincerely hope that these questions are answered with a 'no'.
We are asking for two years for our problems being solved, trusting in the Wikimedia Foundation to prioritise the development in the right order.
If parts of the MediaWiki software cause that Wikipedia articles are emptied without the intention of the user, we hope that WMF takes such problem seriously and gives it a higher prioritisation.
If Elitre is not motivated to care for the Dutch Wikipedia, please let us know who we should ask who can help us with the support so that finally, after long long long waiting, the VisualEditor can be deployed on nl-wiki.
I am not up for a discussion, I have only a simple question: who is motivated to solve the big software issues in the Dutch Wikipedia in this quarter or the next quarter?

I'm fine with not discussing, but it is certainly in everyone's interest that you let us know somehow about these "Wikipedia articles [...] emptied without the intention of the user", which is not something I'm aware of (for example).
All the major tasks are already actively being worked on, as you know (one has even fixed some days ago, and only its blockers are left).
I was exactly hoping that I could make the case "nl.wiki has agreed to a short trial of VE, let's put them explicitly in our quarterly goals to make sure there are not huge blockers to further rollouts soon", but when there's so much hesitation even in accepting a solution which is tailored on your needs and would make a perfect occasion to gather data for the future, I'm sure you understand that then there is basically no reason why I should "lobby" to prioritize this wiki over dozens of others which are either begging for us to finally look at them, or which are just fine with getting VE anyway.

Elitre closed this task as Declined.EditedNov 23 2015, 4:14 PM

@AdHuikeshoven: thank you.
I will certainly be glad to support you in finding out more about all those issues which need to be solved on the community side (templatedata, translations, user education, etc.).
I wish you and the Dutch community a great Erasmus Prize week!

Qgil mentioned this in Unknown Object (Task).Nov 23 2015, 6:33 PM

General request: Phrasing that directly refers to a person (or interprets the intentions of a person in a certain way) is not particularly helpful when you want to make a (potentially valid) point.
Please see the Phabricator etiquette - it asks to criticize ideas, not people.
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