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With new Vector skin and Timeless, Meta, Wikimania and Wikitech logos are replaced by the WM Foundation logo
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Description

With new Vector skin, Meta, Wikimania and Wikitech logos are replaced by the WM Foundation logo instead of their original logo, available only with Legacy Vector.

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Golmore updated the task description. (Show Details)

This has now spread to Timeless, so more users are going to be seeing it. I don't understand how the solution to this is "create new logos" - surely that should have been done *before* users see the wrong logo?

Legoktm renamed this task from With new Vector skin, Meta, Wikimania and Wikitech logos are replaced by the WM Foundation logo to With new Vector skin and Timeless, Meta, Wikimania and Wikitech logos are replaced by the WM Foundation logo.Mar 18 2021, 9:25 PM
Legoktm triaged this task as High priority.
Legoktm added a project: Timeless.

surely that should have been done *before* users see the wrong logo?

I believe this also caused issues on beta cluster. IIRC, WMCS had to ask them very clearly to revert or fix.

We are currently working with Alex to audit the list of projects and provide an extensive list of ones which are wrong and fix them in a single task. We are aware of these projects and I believe I have copied the concerns in here to T244486. Is that not the case? That task shouldn't have been tagged as an epic so I've rectified that now.

We opened a single task as it's been difficult to keep track of every single logo project and fix these in a case by case basis and we are keen to avoid bias here and treat all projects with similar urgency. By reopening this are you saying this needs more urgent eyes? I'm happy to help prioritize this if that's the case.

Note Timeless has historically used custom wordmarks so I'm pretty sure if that has regressed it is means the Timeless specific config has been removed or previously the logo didnt show in those skins at all (same goes for Minerva). Part of this work has been trying to simplify how logos are generated to get away from skin specific logo config.

I'm going to untag this with desktop improvements and Vector given the other task captures this issue in case Timeless wants to do a short term fix.

surely that should have been done *before* users see the wrong logo?

I believe this also caused issues on beta cluster. IIRC, WMCS had to ask them very clearly to revert or fix.

New Vector should be opt in for all these projects. The issue with the beta cluster having wrong logos was that the wikis there were opt out by default and breaking terms of service. It was thus prioritized accordingly with that information. I am not aware of any legal problems with showing these logos on an experimental work in progress skin or opt in skin but please educate me if there are. The default can always be changed to no logo if that makes more sense.

Logos need to be manually created each time so given the languages and projects this is a big undertaking. Right now we are prioritizing the test wikis that have opted in by default (or wish to opt in). If you have any practical ideas around automating that I know the designers would be happy to hear about it in T244486.

Note Timeless has historically used custom wordmarks so I'm pretty sure if that has regressed it is means the Timeless specific config has been removed or previously the logo didnt show in those skins at all (same goes for Minerva). Part of this work has been trying to simplify how logos are generated to get away from skin specific logo config.

Timeless has used the same wordmarks as Minerva and now newvector for quite awhile (I think since it was all... standardised?), and that's looking quite nice where it's set up. The real change here is I finally got around to looking into why your patch to make timeless use the icon/notext logos from a few months ago wasn't working, which turned out to just be a falsey problem or some such and I probably really should have figured that one out a long time ago and/or caught that in the review in the first place, oops. Anyway, I am now applying this to all the skins (aside from oldschool ones like monobook and whatnot, until this is all sorted out in full) because it's actually really cool having notext logos as, well, a thing!

I'm going to untag this with desktop improvements and Vector given the other task captures this issue in case Timeless wants to do a short term fix.

Man, I dunno... once the dumb assumptions I made about logo size are sorted out, this seems way nicer when it is set up correctly... and the thing is, Timeless is fixed, on its end. It only even tries to use these new logos if they're set at all, and otherwise falls back to the oldschool RL-managed ones. Why are projects set to the wrong logo if they don't have one yet available?

We are currently working with Alex to audit the list of projects and provide an extensive list of ones which are wrong and fix them in a single task. We are aware of these projects and I believe I have copied the concerns in here to T244486. Is that not the case? That task shouldn't have been tagged as an epic so I've rectified that now.

This task is a reasonable problem statement, feel free to make it a parent or subtask of the other one that covers every single project.

We opened a single task as it's been difficult to keep track of every single logo project and fix these in a case by case basis and we are keen to avoid bias here and treat all projects with similar urgency. By reopening this are you saying this needs more urgent eyes? I'm happy to help prioritize this if that's the case.

Users should not be seeing the WMF logo on Meta, nor Wikitech, nor Wikimania wikis. It's a high priority regression that should be fixed on the scale of days, not weeks.

Note Timeless has historically used custom wordmarks so I'm pretty sure if that has regressed it is means the Timeless specific config has been removed or previously the logo didnt show in those skins at all (same goes for Minerva). Part of this work has been trying to simplify how logos are generated to get away from skin specific logo config.

See rSTIMbd5f2d9f8c8b: Correctly fall back to $wgLogos['icon'] when not using timeless'. If this isn't ready for usage then it should be reverted not yet slated for 1.36.

I'm going to untag this with desktop improvements and Vector given the other task captures this issue in case Timeless wants to do a short term fix.

It sounds like you're saying the fix is to not use the new $wgLogos system in Timeless because it's not ready yet - is that correct?

New Vector should be opt in for all these projects. The issue with the beta cluster having wrong logos was that the wikis there were opt out by default and breaking terms of service. It was thus prioritized accordingly with that information. I am not aware of any legal problems with showing these logos on an experimental work in progress skin or opt in skin but please educate me if there are. The default can always be changed to no logo if that makes more sense.

I think it's incredibly problematic to have the WMF logo replace the Community logo on Meta-Wiki. I would suggest using the Community logo as the default placeholder.

I think it's incredibly problematic to have the WMF logo replace the Community logo on Meta-Wiki. I would suggest using the Community logo as the default placeholder.

Perhaps defaulting to nothing is the best action here. I'm not sure what the community logo is, but I'm pretty sure we don't have appropriate SVGs for it right now (we've had to modify many of the classic logos).

I can't backport this today, but anyone who understands branding better than me should feel to backport this as a short term solution:
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/operations/mediawiki-config/+/673372

It sounds like you're saying the fix is to not use the new $wgLogos system in Timeless because it's not ready yet - is that correct?

No that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that every logo needs to be manually created, derived from the old logo and certain projects don't have that yet. I'm saying Timeless can workaround this issue by accumulating technical debt if it wishes.

I think @Isarra's take above is right. Let's do this right for every skin rather than applying more duct tape :).

I think it's incredibly problematic to have the WMF logo replace the Community logo on Meta-Wiki. I would suggest using the Community logo as the default placeholder.

Perhaps defaulting to nothing is the best action here. I'm not sure what the community logo is, but I'm pretty sure we don't have Svgs for it right now.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Community_Logo - there are most definitely SVGs for it.

It sounds like you're saying the fix is to not use the new $wgLogos system in Timeless because it's not ready yet - is that correct?

No that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that every logo needs to be manually created, derived from the old logo and certain projects don't have that yet. I'm saying Timeless can workaround this issue by accumulating technical debt if it wishes.

How could it workaround it?

It sounds like you're saying the fix is to not use the new $wgLogos system in Timeless because it's not ready yet - is that correct?

No that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that every logo needs to be manually created, derived from the old logo and certain projects don't have that yet. I'm saying Timeless can workaround this issue by accumulating technical debt if it wishes.

I think @Isarra's take above is right. Let's do this right for every skin rather than applying more duct tape :).

Also it'd be better to fix this in a way that also addresses newvector, since there's no point wigging people out with a wrong logo in the meantime there, either. (It just defaults to nothing for the icon, as I recall, with plain text for the banner, which while not ideal, is pretty standard for older mw-land banners...)

Change 673372 had a related patch set uploaded (by Jdlrobson; owner: Jdlrobson):
[operations/mediawiki-config@master] Don't define a default icon

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/673372

Thanks for putting up that patch but am I correct in understanding if there's no default icon set then there just won't be any logo shown? What is the correct procedure for putting back the already existing logos? That's really what I don't get.

Thanks for putting up that patch but am I correct in understanding if there's no default icon set then there just won't be any logo shown? What is the correct procedure for putting back the already existing logos? That's really what I don't get.

For newvector, we don't actually have the existing logos set up for this particular configuration on the affected sites, is the problem, as it's a new standard. Most of them should exist somewhere on commons, or just need some slight adjustments from versions that exist on commons (separating out the notext/wordmark and sizing appropriately, for instance), but until that's actually done and set up, there isn't really anything to fall back to. It's basically like greystuff, except greystuff tried to make the oldstyle logo fit into this layout even when it doesn't make any sense, which I think is a good chunk of why we made it so the logo could be disabled entirely there?

For timeless, it'll just fall back to the logo that was there, er, a month ago, as that doesn't look nearly as odd just having double wordmarks in that configuration.

Thanks for putting up that patch but am I correct in understanding if there's no default icon set then there just won't be any logo shown? What is the correct procedure for putting back the already existing logos? That's really what I don't get.

For timeless, it'll just fall back to the logo that was there, er, a month ago, as that doesn't look nearly as odd just having double wordmarks in that configuration.

This is the part I was missing. I'll fix up the patch now and get it merged.

Change 673372 had a related patch set uploaded (by Legoktm; owner: Jdlrobson):
[operations/mediawiki-config@master] Don't define a default icon

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/673372

Change 673372 merged by jenkins-bot:
[operations/mediawiki-config@master] Don't define a default icon

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/673372

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2021-03-18T23:56:20Z] <legoktm@deploy1002> Synchronized wmf-config/InitialiseSettings.php: Don't define a default icon (T274199) (duration: 00m 57s)

Legoktm assigned this task to Jdlrobson.

Thanks @Jdlrobson and @Isarra for the patch and explanations of what was going on.

Thanks for the backport!

I think it's incredibly problematic to have the WMF logo replace the Community logo on Meta-Wiki. I would suggest using the Community logo as the default placeholder.

Perhaps defaulting to nothing is the best action here. I'm not sure what the community logo is, but I'm pretty sure we don't have Svgs for it right now.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Community_Logo - there are most definitely SVGs for it.

I am not a designer, but my understanding is they need to be a specific width and height with appropriate alignment so that they align with the heading. I have added this link to the table on T244486 so thanks for that. Even where volunteers are providing logos there have been a few follow up tweaks to some of them.

What is the correct procedure for putting back the already existing logos? That's really what I don't get.

That's what T244486 is for. If we're taking too long volunteers can (and are) speeding things up by following the guidelines on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgLogos