[migrated comment]

In T266511#6787291, @Pginer-WMF wrote:

On a separate note. For the logged-out state it feels a bit confusing to see the standard user icon that seems to communicate logged-in. Would make sense to use the anonymous user icon instead?

[migrated comment]

In T266511#6792389, @alexhollender wrote:

In T266511#6787291, @Pginer-WMF wrote:

On a separate note. For the logged-out state it feels a bit confusing to see the standard user icon that seems to communicate logged-in. Would make sense to use the anonymous user icon instead?

@Pginer-WMF interesting question. To clarify: confusing in the sense that someone who is usually logged-in (but is currently logged-out) might mistakenly think they are logged-in? Or confusing in the sense that a logged-out person might think they are logged-in?

Other questions that come to mind:

• is the userAnonymous icon unfamiliar and therefore distracting?
• might the userAnonymous icon suggest something like "incognito" or "private" mode (which has become more familiar via browsers)?
• would it make sense to clarify within the menu that they are not logged-in
  
• are these two different enough so as to not be confusing?
  
• what if we dropped the icon entirely? Looking at Pinterest, they use only a V. Another option might be ...
  

[migrated comment]

In T266511#6795944, @Pginer-WMF wrote:

In T266511#6792389, @alexhollender wrote:

@Pginer-WMF interesting question. To clarify: confusing in the sense that someone who is usually logged-in (but is currently logged-out) might mistakenly think they are logged-in? Or confusing in the sense that a logged-out person might think they are logged-in?

I was thinking mostly in the former. On some editing features the need to indicate the logged-out status was surfaced by editors that published something not noticing their session already expired (revealing their IP, not linking it to their user to get notifications fro replies, etc.). This may be related to the fact that unlike other common online services where your session seems to live forever, here your session has a much shorter time.

More generally, the icon next to the button to log-in may be sending a contradicting signal of being logged out (as per the button) and logged in (as per the icon) at the same time. I don't know if thats enough to really get in the way of logging-in, but I think it is worth looking into.

Other questions that come to mind:

• is the userAnonymous icon unfamiliar and therefore distracting?
• might the userAnonymous icon suggest something like "incognito" or "private" mode (which has become more familiar via browsers)?

It is possible that the in-cognito meaning is getting in the way. This seems a fitting context for using the anonymous icon (if an icon is needed). So I'd consider that if the current version does not work, we may want to adjust the icon so that it can be more widely used.

• would it make sense to clarify within the menu that they are not logged-in
  

As I mentioned below, the logged-out experience is sub-optimal (less features but also less private than using a pseudonym). So making users aware and suggesting to create an account can be always helpful.

• are these two different enough so as to not be confusing?
  

Note that users won't be seeing these experiences side by side. I think the most relevant analysis would be to pick each case and ask whether a user would figure out their status even if they assumed they are in the opposite case.

• what if we dropped the icon entirely? Looking at Pinterest, they use only a V. Another option might be ...
  

I think this is worth considering too. Talk pages for anonymous users are attached to an IP. There are many caveats and aspects to consider before using it as if this was a regular user account. So I think it makes sense to keep these options less prominent for anonymous users.

Although it is quite hard to hear from anonymous users to better understand their workflows for obvious reasons. So I don't think there is much research about al this.

[migrated comment]

In T266511#6796131, @alexhollender wrote:

@Pginer-WMF thank you for your thoughts. I am processing them. In the meantime wanted to post these two options which don't have a "person" icon:

down arrow	three dots

[migrated comment]

In T266511#6799987, @RHo wrote:

In T266511#6795944, @Pginer-WMF wrote:

In T266511#6792389, @alexhollender wrote:

@Pginer-WMF interesting question. To clarify: confusing in the sense that someone who is usually logged-in (but is currently logged-out) might mistakenly think they are logged-in? Or confusing in the sense that a logged-out person might think they are logged-in?

I was thinking mostly in the former. On some editing features the need to indicate the logged-out status was surfaced by editors that published something not noticing their session already expired (revealing their IP, not linking it to their user to get notifications fro replies, etc.). This may be related to the fact that unlike other common online services where your session seems to live forever, here your session has a much shorter time.
More generally, the icon next to the button to log-in may be sending a contradicting signal of being logged out (as per the button) and logged in (as per the icon) at the same time. I don't know if thats enough to really get in the way of logging-in, but I think it is worth looking into.

Other questions that come to mind:

• is the userAnonymous icon unfamiliar and therefore distracting?
• might the userAnonymous icon suggest something like "incognito" or "private" mode (which has become more familiar via browsers)?

It is possible that the in-cognito meaning is getting in the way. This seems a fitting context for using the anonymous icon (if an icon is needed). So I'd consider that if the current version does not work, we may want to adjust the icon so that it can be more widely used.

Adding some comments from our discussion earlier this week @alexhollender, I agree that the confusion may partly be related to the userAnonymous icon which can be confused with (a) incognito mode which is not what an unlogged in person is, or possible (b) a specific avatar icon at glance if a normally logged in user gets logged out (Pau's initial point).
Regarding (a), I recall that when we redesigned the icon I had "incognito" in mind, which I realise now is a bit misleading, so would be open to revising (separate thread).

• would it make sense to clarify within the menu that they are not logged-in
  

As I mentioned below, the logged-out experience is sub-optimal (less features but also less private than using a pseudonym). So making users aware and suggesting to create an account can be always helpful.

+1 to having this message. Also adding @Prtksxna who may have more info on messaging and copy for IP editors.

• are these two different enough so as to not be confusing?
  

Note that users won't be seeing these experiences side by side. I think the most relevant analysis would be to pick each case and ask whether a user would figure out their status even if they assumed they are in the opposite case.

• what if we dropped the icon entirely? Looking at Pinterest, they use only a V. Another option might be ...
  

I think this is worth considering too. Talk pages for anonymous users are attached to an IP. There are many caveats and aspects to consider before using it as if this was a regular user account. So I think it makes sense to keep these options less prominent for anonymous users.

I think it would be a good education opportunity that talk and contributions exist for non-logged in users so prefer to have some icon instead of none. Potentially, instead of using an avatar, we could indicate the identity if by IP by using a devices or browser icon:

An iconified version of something like this from Commons

something like this existing browser icon from OOUI

Late to the party drive-by comment (just read about this ticket first time):
Overflow menus are pretty consistently signified with 'ellipsis' icon in current interfaces.

Fair enough regarding the reasons for not using a figurative icon, but I agree with @Volker_E that out of the non-figurative options the ellipsis is standard.

In T274296#6820454, @alexhollender wrote:

after further considerations I've decided to move forward with the down-arrow icon:

My main rationale is that: I think using a figurative icon (user, anon user, device, etc.) will draw more attention to the menu than using a non-figurative icon would. I also don't think this menu needs to be easily discoverable for newcomers (in fact it might be better if it isn't since visiting a Talk page or a Contributions page as a newcomer is likely a confusing experience). Therefore I think an abstract icon is preferable to a figurative one. Additionally I don't think the concept of logged-out user tools is familiar to people, and any icon we try to use to explain the concept will add to their confusion.

In T274296#6820794, @Volker_E wrote:

Late to the party drive-by comment (just read about this ticket first time):
Overflow menus are pretty consistently signified with 'ellipsis' icon in current interfaces.

whoops, forgot to add the final design here before closing: